just got 014 280 NICE bike much more capable than my 014 st 300 .what parts cross over think the sprockets are gg pro. k start trs .new one on my bike apeco do them. also apeco do gear and rear brake levers for jtg .piston /rod gg pro? clutch plates? the trs air filter looks the same ? nice things about my jtg had the upgraded clutch cover not good some one retrofitted a remote type rear brake master cylinder it works but the pedal has no feel / solid .also the brake lever shaft is wobbly [can i get a new shaft are they expensive] if i have to i can recon it but its a bit involved the worst bits no side stand any one got one will a trs one fit. how much for a new one thanks for any help i like odd bikes iv got huserberg
Parts are available direct from Jgas online at G2 grup.com (parts menu starts about Page 4 of "Products"), I've stuff from them with no problems, depending where you are it takes around 10 days and there's a blanket €30 shipping charge.
Plenty of aftermarket levers from Apico etc available on Ebay, the factory supplied lever is now the "inboard" type, gearbox sprocket is the same spline as GG but Jgas only has boss on one side of the sprocket from memory, if you get stuck just get a GG sprocket and polish/machine the boss off one side. Rear brake shaft bushes are std engineering parts (as is lots of stuff on the bike), available for about £1 each. Clutch friction plates are the same as GG, the steel plates are peculiar to Jgas. Sidestand bracket looks the same as TRS but fixing hole spacing is different, can be made to fit but correct part is available from Jgas anyway.
I've posted this before on another tyre thread but the tyre situation with effective reliance upon one manufacturer is not healthy, bikes are reportedly held up on production lines too for lack of tyres as few manufacturers want to be seen to be delivering bikes with anything else as a standard fitment to their competition models. There's also lots of conjecture about what the price is going to be of a new Michelin when they do become available.
Maybe now would be a good time to look at the tyre regulations to try and encourage other manufacturers into what is admittedly a very small market, a bit of competition never goes amiss.
There's surely been plenty of discussion around that already on the Jgas thread as a whole? Including stories that parts weren't available which I've personally found out to be untrue before I posted on here; plus you can even order direct from the factory.
Their lack of communication problem is of their own making though.
As the owner of a recently acquired Jotagas 250 I can't fault Vince at Haventrialsport, great with the advice and everything I needed (which was quite a lot, courtesy of some previous owner, in no way the bike's fault), was readily available and came in a few days. Updated stuff from later models can be retrofitted to earlier models such as the improved selector mechanism which gets rid of the excess lever travel...that's next on my list.
It rides and handles well, power delivery is smooth and it's generally easy to maintain, lots of components are common to other manufacturers and are industry standard. It's a shame they were let down by politics and poor communications, hopefully they can turn that around.
Just looking through the various threads and there's SO many on tyres, mainly on opinion of what's best? So I thought I'd start another ???
But standing back and looking at the subject from a different angle maybe(?), current situation is that there's only two serious, worthwhile competitive options for rear tyres anyway, Michelin and Dunlop and that's the way it's been for a good while. Both retail at well over £120 a time and it's mainly down to how much you can haggle your dealer down to for the best price. Is this doing trials any favours and is it a healthy situation to have the market dominated by just two realistic choices?
Obviously the current situation is it's a tiny and limited market with limited sales which is why costs are high and other manufacturers reluctant to get involved for little return, but do we need to keep it that way, especially if we're trying to bring people into the sport? Or stop it shrinking altogether? Do the tyre rules need changing to encourage more options?
Years ago, Sammy Miller was banging on about reducing the section of rear tires from 4.00 to 3.50 on the grounds that sections would have to be easier because of reduced grip, and it would make more land useable for trials on the same grounds. Did he have a point? Could the tyre rules be changed to allow more options and keep costs down? Discuss...
My understanding of this, and I stand to be corrected, is that Torrot (who have their major interest in scooters and electric) have closed the Girona factory and vamoosed to another plant in Cadiz in southern Spain, taking with them the electric trials bike technology that GasGas had been developing under Torrot ownership. Torrot see no future in 2T or even petrol technology.
This has left the traditional petrol bike facility looking for a new owner or backing (again). Given that sales numbers (for trials) are relatively tiny and rely on the enduro and other bike sales to make operations viable, it might be difficult to find such backing?
ETA There's news to be seen on "GasGas news" on Google.
Hi Bondy, I've got an all- green TR77, I believe that it's the 1978 model, I think they went to black frames in 1979, Woody should be able to confirm if he posts.
A lot of them came with Motoplat points ignitions, mine has, I was told that Motoplat were struggling at the time and were basically sending out anything that they could manage? Mine's never given any trouble though. Steve Sell at Marlimar is your man for virtually anything. If you're looking for an Ossa tank (alloy) in any sort of reasonable condition, be prepared to dig deep....
In the name of increasing ground clearance (I think), Ossa fitted longer shocks and dropped the fork legs down through the yokes (or even fitted longer legs?) on the TR, all with the standard geometry, I personally think my Mk 1 MAR handles a lot better with a lower centre of gravity.
If you check out the US website "Ossa Engineering" they've got a full gallery and specs of everything Ossa ever built, their boss man Steve Levi used to be the boss of the US Ossa importers and is very helpful with a range of Ossa products too.
Just been looking at pics of the TRS engineand whilst it's certainly crankcase reed valve induction as per every other carbed bike, there does also appear to be some sort of sensor or even injector mounted on top of the reed valve housing on the crankcase behind the barrel, anybody got any ideas what this might be for..?
I have been using this in my 315r with good results and I love the smell...
I have just bought a 2011 beta evo 250 which has Been run on putoline TT trials.
Is there any benefits to running either 2 stroke oil and if the castrol a747 was the preferred what would I need to do to start using this?
Thanks
To the best of my memory...Castrol A747 is/was a synthetic based oil with some castor elements (hence the Castrol "R" smell). It was intended for highly stressed 2 stroke road race engines (Yam TZ, Honda RS etc) and was pretty pricey and also had a shelf life, I think. It had a "sister" oil for off-road and less demanding applications that was Castrol A545 that was then renamed something else... John Shirt Snr used to SWEAR by it when he was involved with Yam TY monos..Most good two stroke oils will serve well in trials applications IMO
Is the Sherco/Scorpa price the same now that the two are so similar?
Prices that I've seen suggest that the Scorpa is priced around £5400 full retail. Shercos are being pre-order offered (Inchperfect on Ebay) at £5050, certainly for the 250 anyway (I've been looking/dreaming, lol). Don't know if there's any delivery charges involved as well though.
I am told by some that the problem with the Sherco rear fuel tank design, apart from the possible weight distribution issue, was the very contorted air inlet path from filter to carb. OK crossing Scottish rivers might have been easier (anyone?) but I understand it restricted air flow due to having to make a 145 degree turn just before the carb inlet. Multiple air filter changes in design could support that theory.
I look forward to trying the bike.
+1. That was what I was told was the reason for the change. Plus the added complexity of needing a fuel lift pump to feed the carb..adding cost too? I wasn't at this year's SSDT but believe that there were problems for some with fuel tanks and pumps during the event? Gravity is cheap...
If you got a tape measure out and measured all modern trials bikes prob all the same
Yup, it's called "convergent evolution"...different factories, all working towards getting bikes up sections without losing marks. Sooner or later between them they've worked through all the options and found out what works and what doesn't..so they end up with a very similar product. Plus a lot of consumers are scared of anything too radical so they stay conservative.
Remember the 250 2 stroke Jap MXers? All the same except the colours, in many ways?
Very disappointing ,the existing design was a little bit different so why they've chucked it away and painted a scorpa blue is abit confusing, how long until they melt into one brand and come out with the sherpa!?
Maybe all to do with the fact that both brands are now owned by the same man...? Bit of rationalisation maybe..?
Rumour is that they reverted to "conventional" locations for the fuel tank and airbox after "noticing" the performance that Scorpa were getting out of Sherco motors with that arrangement. They look ok to me though..
Chaps, would anybody know what the standard carb jetting/fittings would be for an 06 Rev 80? Carb is a Dellorto PHBG 21 BS. I need to know slide no., needle no., needle jet, main and pilot jet sizes. I have tried Eurocarb and John L's but they've both quoted numbers that are different to each others AND the butchered fittings currently in the carb (and Dellorto bits aren't that cheap to be guessing and experimenting, lol).
The airbox lid appears to have had some extra holes drilled in the front edge, I believe that this is a common mod? Any info much appreciated!
I,d suggest that those who are panicking about selling up are those who probably buy a new bike every year anyway and those who don't fully understand the situation.
I'd suggest that there won't be a problem for many years. Half the bike is bought in from suppliers who supply other makes, brakes, controls, suspension, wheels. Linkage bearings and the like can already be bought for 3/4 of Gasgas prices from engineers merchants.
Look at the industry and specialists who have sprung up around twinshock and pre65. The country is full of people who can weld, machine, turn and manufacture; if mortal man made it, mortal man can fix it. Even if push comes to shove, they've made 1000's of Pros. Even crankcases and gearbox parts will be available for years to come. Look at Bultos and Ossa,s and Fantics. When monos arrived, we couldn't wait to get rid of them. Now, nearly 40 years on we can still keep them running. Gassers will not be a problem, I'm sure.
If they drag OSSA down with them, that's going to leave a massive hole in the market, though I don't doubt that Scorpa and Beta will do their best to fill the gap. What with Vertigo and Tarres' new venture coming onstream as well it makes you wonder if the market is oversupplied and/or contributed to by financial mismanagement?
Gassers are good and largely reliable hence their large market share so they have been selling, but maybe still not in the numbers to be viable - so what would those numbers have to be?
Let's hope that something can be pulled out of the hat for the sakes of all those connected and in the industry in general.
They should stick to making 35mm dia units to satisfy the pre-65 mob....then they might leave Fantics, SWMs, Goris, Aprilias and anything else that used them originally with some......
Development in the wrong direction maybe? Reliability and durability sacrificed to save a couple of kilos here and there? Gas Gas apparently now have gearbox problems. Ossa tried to make selector forks and shift drums out of alloy on the early TRs - they quickly wore and got Ossa an early bad name. Manufacturers are incorporating tech and materials that they don't make enough of a return on cos they don't make enough on bikes or sell enough bikes. So they go under. Yet still we the punters are told that we need still lighter, higher tech bikes to compete on every year. It's a long blind alley, but I don't know where it ends personally. Either we have to pay more for fewer, more exclusive bikes or we change the rules to keep things affordable and lower our expectations in order to keep our sport going and thriving?
Checking the number of entries at Vintage Trials.....I think people are!
"Do-able" sections and less chance of injury perhaps? As pointed out by others, the money that's being thrown at them means they're not much cheaper than a modern bike...?
Remind us what happened next to Ossa, Bultaco & Montesa...
Their sales downturned in the face of competition from the likes of Fantic, development was limited (Bulto painted their bikes blue and Ossa built the Gripper), Spanish labour laws wouldn't allow the slimming of the workforce, that only had one outcome. As previously posted, Mont would have gone under too if Honda hadn't got involved to get a foothold in the Spanish moped market. The list of casualties in the trials game is long and ongoing, SWM/Gori, Fantic as well. Is it passion for the sport taking pride over finances? Why have the Japs only ever really dipped their toes in now and again? Something has to be wrong with the sport somewhere down the line?
If you have a look at the CCMCC results I gave the link to you will see in second place was a twinshock, probably near 90kg.
I do not want to make bikes heavier just for the sake of it, As I am the wrong side of 50 years old and carrying a few old injuries having a light easy to handle bike is preferable.
What I feel would be to the overall benefit of the sport would be a restriction on development that adds costs and in some instances makes the bikes less reliable. At the moment to make their bikes competitive manufacturers have to make them as light as possible. A weight and exotic material restriction would end the necessity for manufacturers to develop in this direction, hopefully cutting their development costs and increasing reliability.
I chose 77kg because that is about the weight of a ready to go 4RT. At some trials last year including a national I spoke to several riders who were able to flick their 4Rts about, some had been lightened, some were standard.
Even F1 the costly pinnacle of motor sport has weight and development restrictions, but for some reason when it comes to trials, a predominantly amateur sport there are virtually no restrictions.
Would Gas gas now be in a better position if it had not had to go to the expense of the lightweight pro engine development?
Steve Earl states a 90Kg GG won;t get new riders into the sort, I can't disagree with that, but a more reliable lower cost bike would probably stop some quitting.
When I bought my first trials bike it was not to compete in trials, it was to have something road legal that I could also mess about on on rough ground. I could also commute and go to the pub on it. Farmers used them for shepherding. That is how most people I know got into trials. That route for entry to the sport is now pretty well none existent and trials bike specialisation is a significant factor in this.
A big +1 to all of that.
Lets not forget the old story of how the UK Ossa, Bultaco and Montesa importers EACH sold 1000 bikes a year in the mid 70s. Anybody have any idea how many bikes a year Shirty, Birks and everybody else sell, put together nowadays?
Steve, if we leave all the manufacturers to go bust we end up with a decreasing field of old bikes that you can't get bits for or more exclusive bikes like 4RTs that few can afford?
Problem is: Manufacturers are incorporating materials,tech and development that they don't make enough money back from = manufacturers go bust; and older bikes will be even shorter lived because there'll be no spares to keep them going
Solutions? Raise prices of bikes which means fewer sales of more exclusive bikes, eg 4RT but fewer riders also?
Or build simpler and/or cheaper bikes that more can afford and recognise that the sport needs surgery if it's going to survive and prosper?
jotagas parts crossover trs gasgas
in JGAS (Formerly Jotagas)
Posted
Parts are available direct from Jgas online at G2 grup.com (parts menu starts about Page 4 of "Products"), I've stuff from them with no problems, depending where you are it takes around 10 days and there's a blanket €30 shipping charge.
Plenty of aftermarket levers from Apico etc available on Ebay, the factory supplied lever is now the "inboard" type, gearbox sprocket is the same spline as GG but Jgas only has boss on one side of the sprocket from memory, if you get stuck just get a GG sprocket and polish/machine the boss off one side. Rear brake shaft bushes are std engineering parts (as is lots of stuff on the bike), available for about £1 each. Clutch friction plates are the same as GG, the steel plates are peculiar to Jgas. Sidestand bracket looks the same as TRS but fixing hole spacing is different, can be made to fit but correct part is available from Jgas anyway.