The observing is almost a closed shop of bradford club or have i got that wrong?
Life or a way to make a living? so it matters to some.
as an active and long standing committee member for Bradford & District Motor club I can assure you the club has never been actively involved in any trials at Nord Vue, a few club members have volunteered to observe, but the club has not been involved at any point,
the club was involved with the observers/Marshalling back at the 3 rounds down at Hawkstone, but quite a few observers came from many different clubs, for the 2 rounds at Fort Bill, the club wasn't actively involved , Yes a long standing club member was in charge of recruiting willing observers, but this was done NOT in conjunction with the club. so how you can say its a closed shop is beyond me,
Fort William is by far the best venue for the WTC, but as Andy says its the location which is the issue, first year there was a 2 day event so the crowds was pretty decent, but second year it was only a 1 day event so the spectators stayed away, it a long way to go for fans who live in the south of the UK,
Nothing to do who does or does not volunteer surely? Unless you're just trying to pick an argument because I'm voicing an opinion!!!!
I had my 6 year son with me and he's not going to want to stand around all day observing at a section.
IF I did observe I can truly say that I would be consistent.
Anyway, as Dabster said I'd paid WELL over £300 for the weekend when you factor in fuel, hotel, sons tickets etc etc so have done my bit I feel for the British WTC round..
If you volunteer to observe at a world championship trial then kudos on you, its great that you can willingly give up your time and I applaud that.
HOWEVER, regardless of what, how, why you are observing you MUST be consistent throughout....
In defence of the observer on section 3 and largely on section 8 they were on the whole consistent - too harsh IMO, but still consistent.
The observer on section 4, whether he'd ever admit it or not was too scared to give Toni Bou a 5. He could NEVER argue he didn't see it EVER he was simply still way too long. He bottled giving a 5 to the world champion and championship leader. It wasn't even an area where you could say 'he was still hopping, trying to keep momentum' etc
When Bou 5'd section 4 on the last lap on Sunday about 20 people shouted out "you know thats a 5 this time yea' or words to that effect.
It is a shame that this is the situation we are in and it is a very hard situation inflicted on the observers by the clowns at the FIM running the sport that insist on running rules that are impossible to observe and that every rider hates.
The only way you'll get the consistency is to have a team of observers that observe at every WTC round across the championship.
And yes I'm aware that that does not help in 'keeping costs down' (which the afore mentioned clowns keep banging on about) however neither does running WTC events in Australia, Corsica etc
not trying to be argumentative at all mate, far from it, I fully understand were you are coming from, believe me I wont ever observe at a WTC again until they drop the non-stop crap, I didn't observe at these rounds because of the rules, I have observed at the last 3 WTC at Hawkstone and the 2 rounds at Fort William and the pressure you are put under from the riders/minders and then the crowd is immense, the slating we got from armchair observers was unreal, I was subject to some real nasty crap from a idiot at Fort William for giving Michael Brown a 5 !!! Due to the stupid rule of touching a flag
totally agree with the Bou situation, defo 5 and yes the Observer bottled it, but the Observers are all volunteers and I can hazard a good guess that no training beforehand was given other than the basic quick pep talk etc, Unfortunately observers are going to make mistakes at some point, and the constant p****** about with the rules by the FIM doesn't help,
Bou should have been given a 5 for that, its a blatant 5, but unfortunately the observer didn't give it, but moaning about the observers wont change the results will it, do you really think that by paying observers it will change anything,
I've seen WTC rounds in UK, France, Andorra, Czech Republic and Poland over the years but never have I seen such atrocious observing decisions as I witnessed this weekend.
A few of the many examples
Saturday section 4: Bou still for at least 4-5 seconds and bike stalled, got away with a 0
Saturday section 3: Ferrer given a 5 for the merest of stops, was not 'technically' stationary either
Sunday section 8: Grattarola having the ride of the first lap and blitzing the rocks that most others (inc Bou) 5'd and got given a 5 yet, same section other riders actually stopped getting away with it.
Sunday section 2: sheppard stopping, going backwards, going sideways and getting a 3
There were many more examples of this pathetic observing but these were the worst that I witnessed with my own eyes.
The worst and most blatant was Bou on section 4, how anyone with a functioning eye could say he did not stop is beyond comprehension.
Ultimately probably didn't alter too much position wise but clear 'benefit' being given to some riders and not others....
If you want to run stupid, impossible rules MAKE IT FAIR FOR ALL RIDERS.
Also, for what it's worth every rider stopped in pretty much every section!!
Idiotic rules and unbelievable observing aside, CRACKING weekend in Penrith. Well done all who made it happen
shall we put you down for a section next year then mate and see how you get on , remember the observers are volunteers and yes they make mistakes, they don't need a load of arm chair observers putting even more pressure on them, agreed the rules are bloody stupid, but that's the rules they have to try and work with
it appears that certain members on this forum are only interested in there own opinion on what is a nice looking or decent bike, and are way to quick to pass judgement on a few pictures without even been given the chance to swing a leg over it and try it out, I am glad that Scorpa seems to have produced a quality looking bike and look forward to actually seeing reports on how good or bad it is,
I think the bike looks great and would love to see one in the flesh and try one. Not everyone likes the Sherco configuration with fuel tank not in the conventional place. I also like the fact that the radiator is better protected, plus it's not yellow.
I've just remembered why I stopped paying attention to or contributing to the forum. there's a stalker on here. He lurks around waiting to pounce with the biggest load of self opinionated arrogant pish you're ever likely to hear.
+1 I dont come on here so much nowadays just for the same reason
they are just so quick to rubbish a bike even before its been made available to the public
maybe maybe not, But I will reserve judgement on the merits or bad points of the bike once I have had chance to see and ride one in the flesh, if and when I decide to get a new bike I will certainly have a good luck at it,
what I can say is that judging by looks alone i think its a nice looking machine, with a proven engine in it so I suspect it will be a very good clubman bike, and yes I have owned a Scorpa before (2003) and the only reason I swapped makes was due to the importer at the time wasnt the best with customer service
unless its £500 cheaper who other than the odd oddball will buy one.
My guess is they will sell less than the 4rt, and jotagas.
why bother you ask !! well if everybody was as predictable as you we would all be riding the same brand of bike and that would be soooo boring,
judging by the pictures I would say it looks pretty dam good and I bet it will also ride pretty dam good as well, lets see it in action before you totally rubbish it
isnt a Gasser and a sherco very similar and doesnt the Jota gas have a cloned Gas gas engine, so they all copy each other so something must be right
lots of fancy anodised bits as in fork clamps, brake & clutch covers/ adjusters etc, titianium exhaust, different crank cases, smattering of carbon, different stickers,
got to feel real sorry for Browny, if Shirty did whats been reported ,then its is own dam fault, and would not surprise me in the slightest, he has continually treated the rules with contempt and finally its bitten him on the a***, well done the COC, real tough decision.
have seen shirty's antic's first hand at other BTC's and British world rounds, with one of my friends never observing again at any trial due to the Gas,Gas cheats team accusing him of assulting a minder who wouldnt get out of the section (tapped him on the helmet with a clip board) win at any cost has really cost you this time Shirty
just a real shame for Browny and the championship to end on such a bad note
tried on numerous occasions to order tickets through the website, but nothing happen's !! anybody else had problems tried using my laptop, IPHONE, & IPAD but still cannot sort it
NB: With regards to importers changing the sections, they are obviously aware that the non-stop rules aren't to everyones liking, and so I am guessing they changed it (if that is what happened) to try and win over the critics. This had to be done with the best intentions in mind as the importers have a much to loose as anyone else with this, however it doesn't seem to have worked and lets hope that lessons are learnt
but if the Importers did change the sections, without the organising club's / CoC permsission, they have absolutley NO right to do so, I set out quite a few trials within my club and I know I would be seriously p****d if someone came along and started changing the sections. If they did change them, then the ACU should take them to task and make sure it doesn happen again
Just a question; were they totally impossible, or just impossible to ride clean? Could a tactical dab get the rider to the ends cards?
correct me if I am wrong but the sections should all be cleanable without a tatical dab, if you are forced to dab to get throught the section its not a non-stop style section
Do you think the observers were instructed to 5 all riders for a split second stop at the BTC?
If so all that would create is bad feeling.
but isnt that the rules,!!!!! you must keep forward motion at all times, so if the observers were 5 ing riders who stopped for a split second, they were using the rules correctly.
what amazess me is the importers seem to have decided to take it upon themselves to change sections at will, I always thought that this was the job of the CoC and the organising club, If as others have said is true about the Importers then the ACU need to sort out the IMPORTERS and listened to what the actual RIDERS want
I wasnt at the trial and I have no interest in ever going to another BTC whilst this farce of Non-stop continues, Yorkshire centre voted in the Non-stop for Centre rounds and its not working very well there either, so what chance has our top riders got in the WTC
I know of quite a few people who wont observer at centre trials anymore due to the No-stop rule and I am one of them,
Not dissagreeing with anything you say but the rule with ACU "front spindle in front spindle out" doesnt apply with AMCA events which is "front spindle in rear spindle out" and it's amazing how many riders dont know that one either.
Its a crazy rule that only the front wheel has to be out the end cards, in my eyes all the bike should be out, when I set trials out I always try and make sure that the end cards are well away from the final obsticale in the section, I like the AMCA ruling on that one
Let's say you use Red/Blue for the Hard Course and Yellow/White for the Clubmen. If the Yellow is halfway between the Red and the Green would you penalise the Hard Course rider if they "Dislodge" the Yellow? And Yes I have seen a course set out like that several times.
No I wouldn't but it's in the Rule's that its a 5 so which rule book are you using , as you quite rightly said that many observers dont know the rules,
when observing isn't the rule that when the front wheel spindle enters the section you start observing and like wise at the end you only have to get the front spindle passed the end cards so how do you judge correctly that the spindle has passed the flag when pulling the wheel over ?
it could be that the very front of the tyre has caught the flag, so as long as its not been dislodged its not a 5.
and as for Q2 (The other course flag) the rules are if you dislodge another course's marker its a 5, so Telecat which rules do you observe to your own or the ACU, as it seems like you use both
Checked rule book last night and yes Q2 is a five, My mistake, but thats why we have a book, so that we can check, but a few years ago when observing at world round we were told that if a rider removed another route's marker,then that was not a 5 , it was only a 5 if it was there route marker,
so I can fully understand why people get confused with the rules
, remember the observers are volunteers and yes they make mistakes, they don't need a load of arm chair observers putting even more pressure on them, agreed the rules are bloody stupid, but that's the rules they have to try and work with
:hyper: 
but the sections should all be cleanable without a tatical dab, if you are forced to dab to get throught the section its not a non-stop style section
I'm going to try to ride a Segway round the tt
in General Trials Talk
Posted · Edited by phb
If you can do it on one wheel, then I will be impressed
