syspig

Thanks much for the offer - PM sent! Related to Wiget programming of the ECU - part of the reason I'd like the service manual is to see wiring specs and diagrams. It would be nice to figure out how to wire in a battery for ECU programming so you don't have to have the bike running to do so. And yes, Slavens videos are some I've seen. This one is pretty good as well.

Good to know - thanks. Unfortunately, I inquired about a service manual directly with Vertigo via their Facebook page and was given a different answer. As a customer, they only offered a link to the Vertigo parts book - and nothing else. That and the rudimentary owners manual are all I've seen. There's also no documentation for the Athena Wificom setup I bought with the bike beyond the very basics, i.e. how to hook it up. I've gleaned a few insights watching Wiget tutorials for other bikes, so I am making headway - but that learning curve is a bit steep. I suppose I should inquire with them again, but given you're aware of the service/workshop manual, software and hardware - is this something that's available to mere mortals, and not just dealers? My nearest dealer is 5 hours away, and having this technical info at my fingertips has been my lone pet peeve about Vertigo. Even if I had a dealer nearby, I'd prefer to do all the work myself.

I've a new 2018 4RT coming in a week. Does anyone know if the stock clutch plates on the newer bikes are now dimpled, or is that still only aftermarket? They weren't on my 2015, and there was a noticeable difference when I upgraded. If need be, I'd like to order them up and have them ready to install during the first fluid change.

Partially answering my own inquiry, for others wondering the same. For countershaft sprockets in the US, I was advised these would work. So, assuming correct - GasGas, TRS and Vertigo are the same. If anyone knows about rears, feel free to chime in.

Are the countershaft and rear sprockets specific to Vertigo, or are there generic options available for one or both?

To my eye, it appears the reservoir is lower than the top banjo bolt on the master cylinder. Many folks, here and elsewhere, have suggested that elbow at the master cylinder can trap air when bleeding towards the caliper. That was my primary reason for raising the reservoir - to eliminate that elbow as a high point, allowing fluid going through it to more easily push the air down. Regardless, while I'll not claim to be a master mechanic - the setup I described worked quickly and perfectly when there was tons of air in the line. It resulted in a rock hard pedal in minutes.

I've never had luck with reverse bleeding, but it's likely just tools/technique. In theory, it does sound like it would work really well. There are certainly plenty of people who are successful with it. For me, I just can't get an adequate seal on the bleeder with the tube/syringe. I've tried zip ties and safety wire and can't get either to grip adequately. So, invariably when I start to apply pressure in sending the fluid up - it shoots out the side and I spew brake fluid on the caliper/disc/shoes. The lack of tight seal isn't a huge deal when pulling the fluid with the syringe from the bleeder, but that's why I finish the job with the master cylinder plunger. I get "fake" air bubbles when pulling with the syringe due to the bad seal, but finishing up with the plunger shows whether any air is actually still in the line.

I wasn't looking forward to bleeding the rear brake on my 4rt after reading some of the posts here. Especially since an empty brake line was going back on with plenty of air to disperse. Came up with a trick I've not seen before that worked great, not only for ensuring all air gets out - but it's easy to do single handed and addresses the difficulty in filling the reservoir. Remove rear fender and muffler. Remove reservoir and two bolts holding the master cylinder. Pass the master cylinder through to the other side around the shock (yes, there's room - barely) then suspend it up high with the rear fender bolt in the right rear fender hole. This keeps the master cylinder well above the rest of the system and makes it easy to fill as you bleed. I started using the pull method (large syringe/tube to bleeder valve), draining/refilling the reservoir 4-5 times. I then switched to the push method, compressing the piston in the master cylinder while opening/closing the bleeder - and since it's removed from it's normal location, a small screwdriver was used which works far better than the short foot pedal plunger. Picture/thousand words...

Too cool, Art! In my own back yard, even. I'll come over and check it out when the bike gets here. Thanks!

Just found a nice, barely used 2017 TXT 125 for my wife. She's never been on a trials bike, and has limited experience offroad on her Yamaha XT250 - but after watching an event last week she was very taken with it and wants to give it a go. It would likely be temporary, but she really wants to start out having a seat to fall back on. While I know there are generics available I could probably get to fit, somebody mentioned the Contact seat from the same year likely fits. Can anyone here confirm that and/or suggest a good option?

Say when, Art! I've now got about 10 hours on the 200, including my first trials event. Ran Sportsman, doing roughly 50% Novice and 50% Intermediate lines. Heavy rain and lots of soupy mud, 38 for the day, and I've zero doubt I'd have scored 15+ higher on the 4RT. Every time I go out on it I get better, and the advancements are not subtle. It's so incredibly confidence inspiring for me compared to my 4RT, and that's led to much less hesitation when trying new things. Basically, when in doubt - point it, get the front end light and it does what I want it to. I just don't fight it as much. Anything that involves lofting the front wheel is especially easier for me. I never had any trouble getting the front wheel up on the 4RT - but for whatever reason, it was far more difficult for me to control when doing so. What's interesting though, is as Art mentioned - people certainly have their preferences. While there's some pretty universal praise for certain aspects of the bike, not all who have been on it were as taken with it as I have been. Both of my buds who have have ridden their 4RT's for a couple years spoke highly of the power delivery and clutch. Both of them immediately noticed how much lighter and responsive it is compared to their Montesas, but one of them didn't really consider that a positive. He actually preferred the added weight on his 4RT, saying he felt more "planted" when riding it. He also preferred the geometry and ergos of his 4RT, but admitted that could simply be familiarity. Another of my riding pals has relatively little time on trials bikes, but plenty of riding experience. He, like me, can't find anything he likes better on the Montesa. So, perhaps unexpectedly - it's a chocolate and vanilla kind of thing. I'd certainly encourage anyone who has the chance to swing a leg over one.

Of the seven bikes in my stable, six are FI. My experience mirrors yours. I've never had a fueling failure on FI, and the lone carb bike requires more maintenance than the others combined. I'm totally stoked my incoming Vertigo won't require the necessary carb headaches. The complexity and potential failure of FI components is routinely brought up in forums, and I'm sure a handful of folks have been bitten. Personally, I think it's a problem that's totally blown out of proportion, and its benefits far outweigh any theoretical shortcomings. More to the point: It's not like people will have a choice for long. Given ever stricter EU/US emissions standards, carbs are not long for this world. If one wants to buy new, the days are coming where you simply won't have any choice.

This topic ain't dead yet - right? I'm a believer in seeking out input both from those of my own skill level, as well as experts. The voice of experience is certainly worth paying attention to, but quite often - I feel advanced riders forget what it was like starting out. Sure, you recall issues you faced when you were starting out - but it's tough to put your mind back to where it once was. The only trials bike I'd been aboard until a few days ago was my 4rt. Way more traction than anything else I'd ever ridden, but as I challenged myself, learning grip techniques was critical. Still, while tips read here definitely improved grip for me - finding traction has been a challenge at times. I just wrote it off to needing more experience, as my riding buddies are also on 4rt's and get through tricky sections much better than me. There are many posts in this thread and elsewhere of experienced 2t riders giving 4t's a try, and eventually going back. More posts still of ex-2t riders who have figured out the proper techniques, and are happy to stay aboard their 4t's. Me - having never been aboard a 2t until last week (see my comment on the Vertigo 200 if interested), I found my traction control issues basically disappeared the minute I got aboard two different 2t's, the Vertigo 200 in particular. I was far better on it within 30 seconds than I was on my 4rt, even after months of riding the Montesa 3-4x a week. Again, I'm not about to discount observations by those of you with years of experience. Perhaps it's even possible that once my skills progress to a certain level, the fairly drastic difference I noticed will dissipate. I'll just suggest that for some of us, gaining traction on a 2t comes far more naturally - and as a relative beginner, the fewer things I need to concentrate on the better.

The pro: Yes, I rode one. Today. It was magical. The con: While I'm not totally wet behind the ears, you might trust feedback from those with many years of trials riding under their belt. That's definitely not me. Still, here's my lowly feedback. ? My background - riding for 40+years, but technical dirt riding is new-ish to me. Started trail riding 7-8 years ago, got on with more technical things on a Beta Xtrainer about 9 months back. Trials riding, even newer. I've been aboard a 4rt for several months, riding 3-4x a week and progressing nicely. My wife and I are on a trip right now, and as luck would have it - we were passing nearby LewisportUSA, the US Vertigo importer. I've a friend who took a private lesson from Adrian Lewis and recommended him, so my intent was to get feedback from a professional, have my basics evaluated and put any feedback to work on my 4rt when I return home. I don't have my bike with me, so rented one from Lewisport. Adrian started me on the Vertigo 250, and for the most part - I liked it far better than my 4rt almost immediately. I was more at ease, felt more balanced and the weight difference was very obvious to me. I actually found the 250 smoother than the 4rt down low, but at my skill level - the 2t snap was something to contend with when opening up the throttle more. And again, given my skill level - that happens with a bit of frequency inadvertently. Nothing scary, but it was definitely in the back of my mind at all times. During our lunch break, I shared with Adrian wisdom read here about the Beta Evo 200. Basically, that so many of y'all have given it such rave reviews, and how it's plenty of bike for most riders. To which Adrian replied..."I've got a Vertigo 200 in the van. Want to try it out?" It was his wife's bike, a 2020 one ride fresh, and I jumped at the chance. Let me say this...there was NOTHING subtle about the difference in this bike compared to the 250, and certainly not compared to my 4rt. Everything was easy. I hopped aboard, and was immediately holding static balance for 30 seconds - something I've struggled to maintain for more than 5 seconds prior. You could ride it down low however you wanted...plenty of clutch slipping (which is feather light and super smooth), or just roll the throttle on easy with no clutch. Wonderfully smooth and predictable in every situation, and just dang easy to ride. I spent the second half of the training on that bike, and it's not an exaggeration to say I was doing things I never expected to be doing. It was that good. And, while it did everything more smoothly than anything I'd ridden - it definitely was no slouch when you wanted to open up the throttle. However, that addicting yet totally controllable snap comes on at 3/4 throttle and higher RPM's, so being surprised with an inadvertent roll on never happened. It hit hard when I wanted it to, and only when I wanted it to. So, how much did I like it? I bought one. The decision, while unexpected was easy...I've never been this excited about a new bike, and there have been a few for me.