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jordi

2010 Sherco

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...Birkett had one for a while and reckoned the problem was the distance between the filter box and the back of the carb ie when you opened the throttle it took longer for the additional air to arrive at the carb.

If Sherco are going this way I hope they get it to work but its not as easy as you might think.

Hi,

The distance between filter box and carb could be as narrow as in normal bikes if the cylinder is flipped 180 degrees. This has been done before by Martin Clerch in a '94 Aprilia Climber ( http://www.scottishtrial.com/esp/clerch/climber.pdf ). The same for two-strokes or four-strokes.

However, my first concern is the heat propagation between exhaust and fuel, specially in the 4T.

Cheers, JM.

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I have now had time to digest all this information......
Me too and the implications are quite big I think..... :)

Firstly if Sherco are introducing a new frame at the same time as this "tank in the seat" change then this a big step by Sherco. The tank will be a the same level (and lower) as the carb....Does this mean Sherco will need a fuel pump and/or would it be better going fuel injection at the same time?

Rumors at one time were GasGas were working on a fuel injected 2-stroke.....maybe Sherco are taking up were they left off??.....certainly GasGas now having this on the new side-vale bike (coming soon!!) would indicate that these parts are available for Sherco to use.

Heat propagation between exhaust and fuel would be tough but with a modern heat reflective materials possibly Ok.

Along with all the other modifications they're doing I think flipping the cylinder 180 degrees would be too much design work. And in a Trials frame I cant see it having a better airflow that way. But with the fuel tap gone (for above the carb) I reckon there's enough space for good airflow from an Airbox above the carb.

But having owned two 06 Frames I just hope they get this new frame right first time.....Although I don't really see why Sherco would need a new frame to do any of the above so I have my doubts in that area too.

Just my 2 cents worth. :(

Best of balance.

Neo

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Sherco already has very good fuel injection on their 4 stroke enduro bikes, has a battery although montesa has shown it is possible to get around it with some clever electronics.

As far as I know no one has managed to inject a 2 stroke successfully with the response a trials bike needs although I stand to be corrected

Lets hope if the rumours of a new tubular frame are true that it looks better than gas gas's & doesn't overhang plastics like theirs :(

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Hi Tony,

Might be worth having a read of this

If the new Sherco 4T ends up with a battery it'll be one step behind the Gassa and the Mont. :(

The previous Sherco frame ran for 7 years......if they change this one now it would only be 4 years.....Maybe this reflects the change in times....maybe it's Xispa fight back....but I hope all the extra development costs don't drive the Sherco Trials division under. :)

"& doesn't overhang plastics like theirs"...can you tell me more about this?

Best of balance.

Neo

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First thing the guys who bought ragas noticed was that the plastics were the same as the old frame & the frame was outside the plastics.

Not as smooth a transistion as the old 1, take a look at the next 1 you see & you'll understand esp around the tank

Had a look at the link to gas gas oz & think that sounds very similar to what montesa uses.

Sherco must have had their reasons for not fitting injection to the 320 but I'm not really sure other than maybe cost & thinking buyers could have been put off by the complexity even though their cars have had it for years, we're a conservative bunch sometimes. :(

From what I heard at the time sherco had gotten a bit overextended financially developing the four stroke which may have played a part in the rushing it onto the market & so there was no money to also develop a battery-less fuel injection.

Look at how long gas gas has taken to release their bike & you'll have an idea of how hard it is to do something completely different to what you already have

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First thing the guys who bought ragas noticed was that the plastics were the same as the old frame & the frame was outside the plastics.

Not as smooth a transistion as the old 1, take a look at the next 1 you see & you'll understand esp around the tank

Had a look at the link to gas gas oz & think that sounds very similar to what montesa uses.

Sherco must have had their reasons for not fitting injection to the 320 but I'm not really sure other than maybe cost & thinking buyers could have been put off by the complexity even though their cars have had it for years, we're a conservative bunch sometimes. :P

From what I heard at the time sherco had gotten a bit overextended financially developing the four stroke which may have played a part in the rushing it onto the market & so there was no money to also develop a battery-less fuel injection.

Look at how long gas gas has taken to release their bike & you'll have an idea of how hard it is to do something completely different to what you already have

Personally, I think all of this is total crap!

I have ridden the Monts, the new 300 Evo's and the new Sherco 4T's!

A friggin Mont needs a battery because you cannot chug it along like a normal 4T because the capacitors cannot hold up, then forward motion suddenly stops, usually at the wrong time! Not good! Works in the right aspects though if one is aware. Spit you on your head otherwise.

The Beta is better at chugging along and yet keeping a good response with the CV carb. It works fine! One would find it hard to stall under normal conditions.

The Sherco, albiet with a more conventional carb, SPS or not, still works well! It is a more high performance bike and likes the rider of proper use! Same principals!

I do not want or need a FI on a trials bike! And if it ever comes to that , I hope it does have a small battery pack rather than some quickly depleted capacitors. I find no fondness in the costs of fuel pumps and throttle bodies on a trials bike! Map This! Get a grip! Ride what you brung!

And then look at Caby on a ****ty carburator! Do you need more? Learn how to ride the bike! Get real, and back to the basics. :crying:

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Hi,

We also have more confidence on carbs, but it's clear that the future is owned by FI even on two-strokes engines. Something similar happened with the electronic ignition. How many of yours want their bikes with the old Lucas ruptor?

The 250'enduro shercos (FI) are really creamy bikes. I feel that is the near (maybe not inmediate) future of sherco's 4T engines. Let's time plays.

Cheers, JM.

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I've ridden the 450 enduro & like how the injection works but like most guys I still understand carbs & don't see any problem with staying with them

Got more problems with 4 strokes in general esp the offensive level of noise most produce, noise checking has begun to take place even at club level for mx & we'd be sticking our heads in the sand to think it'll never happen to us with how more people are building near where we ride

Haven't gotten a ride on the beta yet as not many around & the importer still rides a 2 stroke but have ridden the sherco so agree with cope on their character, clubmen steer clear this is for guys with quick responses only, i like esp the flames from exhaust as it lights up

Never liked the mont, first 1 I tried had a light switch for clutch & used to feeling what tyre is doing through clutch lever on my sherco meant I really struggled on a fairly simple climb that I'd cleaned all day

Shouldn't be long til we find out for sure what next years bikes will look like

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I've ridden the 450 enduro & like how the injection works but like most guys I still understand carbs & don't see any problem with staying with them

Got more problems with 4 strokes in general esp the offensive level of noise most produce, noise checking has begun to take place even at club level for mx & we'd be sticking our heads in the sand to think it'll never happen to us with how more people are building near where we ride

Haven't gotten a ride on the beta yet as not many around & the importer still rides a 2 stroke but have ridden the sherco so agree with cope on their character, clubmen steer clear this is for guys with quick responses only, i like esp the flames from exhaust as it lights up

Never liked the mont, first 1 I tried had a light switch for clutch & used to feeling what tyre is doing through clutch lever on my sherco meant I really struggled on a fairly simple climb that I'd cleaned all day

Shouldn't be long til we find out for sure what next years bikes will look like

The '09 EVO 4T in 300 cc version that I rode was extremely quiet and very docile, yet more grunt than the 250 version. Actually seemed too quiet and restrictive, ran near flawless as I deliberataly tried to misuse it.

I understand the Sherco 4T has two options in muffs, standard and quiet, not sure what they are coming with as standard.

Just as a seat of the pants guess, I don't recall either being more noisey than my Serow 225 trail bike with full on standard exhaust. :P

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Besides less weight, lowering the CoG is a very good thing. Easier to balance for sure.

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Not many 4 stroke shercos around here, probably only the 1 last year which I had the play on after assembly & before delivery to owner. Seemed fairly quiet to me, nothing like the derestricted monts were which all seem to have been parked up

I'm not sure how many more 4 strokes came in after the 3 or 4 first models, the starting issues probably scared a few people & who wouldn't prefer the 2 stroke anyway

No 4 stroke evo's have been brought in yet, the guys who wanted them didn't want to wait til production was in full swing so took 290s instead, the rev4s were good noisewise so guess the evo is no different

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Besides less weight, lowering the CoG is a very good thing. Easier to balance for sure.

When you weigh 60kgs (like I do :crying: ) that's a major point.....thanks for this sobering thought Atom :P

Best of balance.

Neo

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So how about this for a spanner in the works

Sherco start out with a bike very similar to a Gas Gas back in 2000, no real outcry from folks and from there they have developed a distinctive product.

Now they need to move on, guess what, they are going to copy the new Gas Gas frame

can somebody explain to me why nobody is kicking up a fuss about this yet when Xispa copy a Sherco there is an outcry ????

Me no understand !!

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Now they need to move on, guess what, they are going to copy the new Gas Gas frame

Me no understand !!

How do you mean copy the GG frame ? no bugger has seen it yet, were you refering to oval tubing, like the 86 RTL ? or the tank under the seat, like a JCM, nowts new, and not a lot to work with on any trials bike, most so called new ideas have been applied before in some way or another.

Some parrot invented the wheel, it was a good idea, makes sense to use those ideas.

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