toofasttim Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Following the sometimes acrimonious thread regarding a new Mont model, what is clear is that Honda seem to have lost interest in trials. It's not a certainty but they don't seem to be bothered about their sales presently. So Honda seem to be withdrawing and Yamaha have gone. In the space of a few months we've lost the longest lasting manufacturers in the sport (both entered the sport in '74. That's 35 years of continuous involvement). Is this a sign of the (financial) times or have they just lost interest? Sad times indeed. Discuss.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I know what you are saying, but in reality it just seems different. Yamaha put up what, a 20 year old + motor for the groupies, with no WTC support. Then Honda comes in with the big bucks , high tech that none can afford and buys the best riders and support! WTF are they doing for you as a rider? If the budget is cut, let them ride stockers that everyone else gets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Tim, you're right the times they are a changing. Bike sales in all sectors and among all brands are down. I heard a statistic recently, from a credible source, that trials bike sales (all brands combined) were 15,000 units worldwide 10 years ago, then down to 10,000 units in 2008 and now down to 5000 in 2009. That is a slide that few industries can survive unscathed. There have been ERE ( workforce reduction) throught the industry but only Montesa gets talked about. The Montesa situation seems to draw the most attention. It draws lots of speculation and opinions. There is sooo much bad info about Montesa that I though I would try and add my thoughts to help clear up some mis-conceptions. Believe me I know very little, only what I can observe from a distance. I have no idea what will happen next. Perhaps nothing. Montesa/Honda is not immune to world economic factors. Read this Press Release It is hard to tell what will happen. We see many factors at work. We see a world class team the likes of which the sport has never seen just finish another great season, buy a new team truck and renew all its sponsorship contracts for another season. World Champs, Men and Women and Manufacturers World Champions. All good signs. On the other hand we see a 4Rt that has seen only minor updates since its' intro in 2005. Product manager is just not doing his job. There are very good trials people at Montesa/Honda but there are also some corporate drones that should not be allowed to lay hands on Montesa. They just don't know what they are doing. It's not a Japanese/Spanish thing either. We also see a Euro that grows stronger everyday and that drives the price of the bike higher for those outside of Europe. We see Montesa/Honda replace Sandifords its longest serving importer with Honda UK. Hard for me to accept. Here in the US the weak Dollar killed it for me. Montesa/Honda (Factory and Importers) have always operated on small profit margin. Ironic, most expensive bike and the least profitable one. That leaves little wiggle room. So when factors put pressure on the market, they are the first to feel the pain. So what do they do now? They have an overstock of 2009's. It may be that there is no 2010 model as they try and reduce inventory. I believe that if the 2009 was a 280 or even 300cc with PTB-EFI they would have sold many more, but changes cost money and raise the price of the bike. Changes to the motor require new homologation and larger cc would increase price due to the new EU Carbon Tax. It needs to cost less, but how? It has too much quality and technology ... compounded by the Euro. There are solutions, but decisions need to be made. Time will tell. One thing I believe is that Montesa will not disappear. Montesa has proven to be a survivor. Martin Edited September 22, 2009 by Martin Belair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I hope they don't Martin. It's bad enought that Honda (appear to) have lost interest. To lose Montesa would be a dreadful blow. I wondered about it last night after reading that thread, could the Permayer family ressurect the brand in its pure form should Honda decide to cut ties? BTW great avatar. I remember the pic in (I think) "Popular Cycling". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Anything can happen Tim. Bottom line is that it is still a great bike and if were not for the economic climate it would still be selling well. Honda like any motorcycle or car company today has bigger problems than the trials market. That avatar was along time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramit Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Maybe they should bring the 247 back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for artie Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I know what you are saying, but in reality it just seems different. Yamaha put up what, a 20 year old + motor for the groupies, with no WTC support. Then Honda comes in with the big bucks , high tech that none can afford and buys the best riders and support! WTF are they doing for you as a rider? If the budget is cut, let them ride stockers that everyone else gets! I've never understood the Honda Hater mentality. It's as if they are angry because electricity was brought to their village. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Maybe they should bring the 247 back! Ah now your talking VIVA Montesa man,,,i have one of these stashed in a couple of box'es. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Anything can happen Tim. Bottom line is that it is still a great bike and if were not for the economic climate it would still be selling well.Honda like any motorcycle or car company today has bigger problems than the trials market. That avatar was along time ago. I really disagree, I think the 4rt has had its day and alot of people have tried it and just can't get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 "You better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I really disagree, I think the 4rt has had its day and alot of people have tried it and just can't get on with it. So if the 4RT was cheaper people still wouldn't buy it? That seems to have dictated sales the last couple of years, still the best bike for some trials by a long way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Honda havent continuosly been in the trials market they have always flitted in and out as it suited them, which they are perfectly entitled to do. the tlr 200 was released early eighties but the tlr 250 was the first serious production attempt I can remember. I think yamaha dropped out for a couple of years in the early eighties before the mono came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 So if the 4RT was cheaper people still wouldn't buy it?That seems to have dictated sales the last couple of years, still the best bike for some trials by a long way! Absolutely, last year at the french four day it was the best at the tracks inbetween sections, and from what I know and peeps have said its a demon on the long roadwork sections in scotland. However it rained in France and it was then a millstone. Or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Mr spea said to me in france that is why the manufactures want to change to no stop because they have spent lots of money developing the 4 stroke and no one wants them and no stop will suit them, its a shame that the rules have to be changed because of money Edited September 22, 2009 by pjbjm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Honda havent continuosly been in the trials market they have always flitted in and out as it suited them, which they are perfectly entitled to do. Nah, they've always had a trials bike in production. It may have been a piece of ****e (e.g. the Relex) or it may only have been available in Japan (e.g. the TLM260) but they've never left the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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