Andy Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Sherco don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) It’s strange how some subjects that get covered in this column attract more postings, and views, than do other subjects, and last week’s comment about the enduro bikes ripping up the Lakes has certainly set the ether chat buzzing. For sure (as they say in Franglais), it’s not the bikes that do the damage, it’s the riders, and I understand the point. But having accepted that, those who ride enduro bikes to carve up and down the land that has been lost to the Lakes Two Day Trial have a mentality that is alien to those of us who ride trials on Lake District (and other national park) land. And if they were to ride in such a manner on a trials bike rather than an enduro bike, there’s no doubt the land damage would be considerably less, but so too I presume would be the fun. Sorry but an illegal riding ******** is an ******** if he rides an Enduro bike, Trials bike or the vicars old rusty push bike. You can count the legal routes for people to ride on in Swaledale & Arkengarthdale on one hand, yet the *******s are going all over the place on the moor roads. The keepers are getting windy & sooner or later they'll stop everybodies fun due to these knobheads who think they know best, no Scott, no 3 Day, no Mintex. Grand for me though, I can go ride the Lakes instead of stuffing flags in for somebody else's enjoyment. Edited October 19, 2009 by PERCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Sounds as if the lakes is gonna be for mere mortals again which is good. Regards endoro motocross bikes etc. It seems as if the only (last) option is for us trials types to disassociate ourselves from them. Probably wont do much good because if its got 2 wheels and its off road its a blo*dy motorbike so far as the walkers twitchers wardens and everybody else is concerned. Having been around trials for longer than most I'm as bloody minded about my "right" to ride where I want being strangled off over the years but anarchy is not a long or even medium term fix for the problem. Sadly for us trials types there is no body to represent us exept ourselves in this matter. Hopefully Rappers will keep drawing attention to this problem (I'm too old to have issues) at least those of us on quiet bikes with some respect for nature who realise the fragility of our situation can continue to promote our allbeit miniscule sport as a good thing. It is indeed sobering to have conversations with landowners with huge tracts of trials paradise who are being offerred large sums of money in grants ( for planting or other such hairbrained schemes to spend our taxes) to effectively ban all motor sport from thier property but who for reasons of thier own resist this and let us use it once or twice a year for a bottle of whisky and a good chat (perhaps they are just lonely and don't need the money). Just to return to the nature bit; I know a landowner who rode trials but was told by walkers and eventually a "clipboard in a suit" to stop running trials on his ground because there was evidence of a particularly rare lily which was being torn out of the ground by those horrible motorbikes..... he took the clipboard chap to where he washes his bike and pointed out the liy growing profusely he then sent him round to me and I did the same . Thus we were able to prove even to a functionary that far from being bad for nature we were actually improving the faunas chances of survival by spreading it about. This is not always going to be the case but it does highlight the need for us to stand up for ourselves collectively in a constructive manner at every opportunity. Many of us will know Walter T**ber ( a Swiss regular at the SSDT).. trials riding in Switzerland is practically a no no so walter got himself "appointed! as a polution inspector for the United Nations with a nice little badge....he can now fearlessly ride in already filthy streams so long as he picks up some crud during the day. Maybe it will come to this situation for us sooner than we think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micm Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Looking up from down South it would appear that the TC site is more Gas Gas orientated than Sherco but I am sure it is only responding to the more vocal and numerous members (and agents) who mainly ride GG's. Also it may be the site members feeling that GG is more innovative and thus more worthy of support and that the Montbui company tends to follow their lead. Perceptually (and I deal with advertising/images sometimes) the TC site is always red and black and that probably will have a very slight effect. As far as land loss and behaviour is concerned the important thing is to make as clear a divide between selfish idiots and responsible riders. Talk about SSI's and ANOB's (I'm sure you know) relate the sport to the countryside by its associations with non motor events like show jumping, eventing, hunting and the other country users and talk to the Countryside Alliance type bodies. When talking to the public sector bodies I emphasise that it is not a speed racing sport and that all ages, skills, both sexes and different physical body types can take part (and bless them for their courage and skill - some disabled people too) and that it has a long honourable history and is nationally well organised. Oddly when I say a good ride will be applauded by the spectators it always surprises such people. The National Trust for example is not anti trials per se but needs good intelligent local briefing. Set the scene of a trial to them, invite elected members, and describe an event, the setting out, how you inspect, the only one go at it and that after 2 or 3 hours in one venue you may be gone for a year! You have to emphasise that it is in a good sense a well mannered sport. Medically a balance activity such as dancing or trials is very good for the body. As you strive to balance, either in the tango or a pivot turn the body involuntarily uses this moment to re balance your internal organs - I'm not joking. I understand also that cycle trials is taught in some foreign schools for riding skill and to help with issues like self confidence - is this of any use to us? It is a very difficult sport to explain or sell but with patience and a good story, and these days a handy iPhone video, it is possible. And don't forget to invite the local mayor to your next major trial. Oh and some of your northern trials day's catering sounds lovely. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toeneybow Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) i read with interest about the lakes, yes been there done that, and the manx many times too... i also read with interest the well known names in the top end of the results on the clubman course, including winner, a certain Roger Wiliams, anyone heard of him!! if i remember rightly he used to ride an odd event in the northern centre, on the easy course you may ask? no as a very capeable expert on the hard course as a real prospect of winning the trial!! its about time Mr Rapley wrote what i think he would maybe think(do concede if im wrong) but where is the manx and the lakes heading? Mr Williams this year, who next, Steve Saunders, sure birks could have a pass too... wont complete the list as it would be massive, and it is the same at the manx too. both trials are brilliant, the lakes i know is surrounded by good guys and im sure the manx is too, but you are getting one thing wrong.... your national course is set for maybe 3 people, 5 on a good day, every section is at too high an intensity, i think it even fair to say, the section plotters even set out as though its a competition between them to set the hardest sections. this causes a trial suitable to 3 and although the national course seemed well attended this year, this will be short lived. what the plotters dont realise is mighty steps and very risky jumps are food and drink to these boys, they practice it all week. these guys lose marks where joe average cleans, lapse of concentration, niggly cambers or tree roots simple beck bottoms, what you call natural sections, by the way the lake district is filled with just this type!!! end result? well the end result is a course far too hard for very accomplished riders just like Mr Wiliams! so what happens? what happens is many give the lakes a go at national level, then do one of three things, plug on year on year, not enter, or hey why dont i enter the clubman class..... many do the latter, argh no problem you think? well no problem if your them, but a big problem for the rest, the true novice riders, taking part in an end of year social trial, a trial which without doubt gives the best routes of any trial held in the northern centre, a trial they should be able to come and enjoy, possibly have a good ride..... whoops wrong. what you novice riders forgot was that the organisers coc ked the national course up, and so half the countries experts are now on your course..... whoops again? well yes, they aint going to have to ride your level of course, they now need it harder apparently... so now the clubman course ends up way harder than it needs to be, 36th is the first man into a three figure score, the course is won on 32 2nd is 43, this course used to be won on less than 10 by riders who then should have been on the national course had it been suitable.... i could go on but i wont, i made my point but will put some recommendations below... first point, the top riders in this event are full time, dont go to work monday, and certainly dont buy there bikes or their spares.... national course, 40 sections split into several groups with a ratio of about every 8th section being a star section(placed maybe where good spectator parking) thats roughly 5 a day, make them work for a clean or even to get thru but that is all you need, use skill and craft to make the other sections enjoyable to ride, use length and not always ultimate difficulty. winning score wasnt bad for winner but could still be less, 4th was nearly double 3rd's score!! this is a non championship end of season social trial, where the ultimate section difficulty is maybe! too hard, definately the way it is hard is wrong, but where it is really wrong, is the difficulty intesity over the 80 sections. getting the national course right results in the very good riders riding the course that they are intended too, this then allows the clubman course to be eased dramatically making it an enjoyable for all riders on that course, by the way as i said earlier! three figures was reached by 36th place on this course.... having no stop should make it far easier to extract the marks so why make it so hard..... the more the winner drops! the quicker your into cricket scores for the others.... ok now the light hearted bit, "The trial was fairly difficult, but with perhaps four exceptions, I felt that even at my level of ability, with a good ride I could clean every one, and that Edited October 21, 2009 by toeneybow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Couldn't disagree with a thing you've written, only thing missing is your real name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Whilst I agree in principle with what your saying I'm not sure how you can apply that to this year's Lakes. 20th place on the national course dropped 80 marks, average 40 a day. That isn't too many for a national, so no way it was set out to take marks from the top 3 riders and never mind the rest. No-stop ruling must take some credit for this. Had they been allowed to stop and hop around on the SAME sections, the marks would have been significantly lower for the top riders. On the clubman course, 30th place man dropped 92, average 46 per day. Again very reasonable I'd say for a 2 day national, it's not a club trial. I'm over 50 and rode a 30 year old Bultaco around which was capable of cleaning the vast majority of the clubman route with a better rider on it. There wasn't a single section that I thought 'no way, that's beyond me and the bike'. Not sure I understand your comments on social trial and novice riders though. It's a national trial and not aimed at novices riders. Good clubman riders and older riders who were regulars on the national scene in their younger days yes, novices no. I agree that in some events there is a danger that a COC can aim sections at the top few to give them 'something to go at' and sort a winner. It's a catch 22. If they want the top riders at their events they have to give them a challenge, otherwise the riders won't come, this makes it too hard for the rest. Alternatively, the riders accept that they aren't going to find it much of a challenge and they decide whether they want to ride or not. It's a problem with modern trials, the capability of a modern bike and the ability of a very few riders to get the most from it has caused this predicament, as per WTC / BTC. I've no idea what the answer is and I couldn't give a toss about WTC / BTC but I do care about trials like the Lakes and Manx. No stop rules seemed to me to close the scores up, leaving the sections hard but rideable for most of the entry. Imagine if Dabill and Co had dropped the same amount of marks under stop and hop rules - what would the rest have been on. For me, over 50 and on a Bultaco, no way was it too hard. My score is too high due to losing then finding my punchcard on Saturday which screwed the day up and too many hang on **** or bust rides for clean instead of taking mark saving dabs. But what the hell, thoroughly enjoyed it and would ride it again this weekend if I could on the same bike. For me, whilst I'd prefer more sections in the rocky streams, it was still right on the button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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