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dan williams

The Beta Clutch Fix

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56 minutes ago, Eric Brackenbury said:

The hydraulics are compensating you need to put washers under the spring bolts to make any difference, it's simple mechanics ?

 These are two different issues. The washers under the spring bolts are to make pull easier. I use softer springs as I need the easiest clutch action possible. I cut off the tendon in my clutch finger a few years back. The shims are for taking up the slop, so the clutch cleanly breaks free. Beta has had this issue for decades and not all bikes need it. Polishing the plates and removing the glue is also two different actions. One for sticking plates from oil and one for better movement. 

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1 hour ago, Eric Brackenbury said:

I think drilling holes is a bad idea especially if you have not cleaned the glue and polished the tabs. Cleaning the glue will probably fix this issue as the symptoms sound like a lack of oil in between the plates but while you have it in pieces do the washers under the spring bolts, 1.2mm should be good

Your giving wrong info.

https://www.splatshop.co.uk/csp-p2g-precision-to-grip-complete-clutch-beta-evo.html

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9 hours ago, totty79 said:

I've done it a couple of times.

It's just making sure the clutch has it's maximum throw by reducing the reliance on the self adjusting capability of the hydraulics. The difference can be really noticeable but isn't always, depends on what you're starting with.

Right on the money! 

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20 hours ago, lineaway said:

 These are two different issues. The washers under the spring bolts are to make pull easier. I use softer springs as I need the easiest clutch action possible. I cut off the tendon in my clutch finger a few years back. The shims are for taking up the slop, so the clutch cleanly breaks free. Beta has had this issue for decades and not all bikes need it. Polishing the plates and removing the glue is also two different actions. One for sticking plates from oil and one for better movement. 

Oh yes I get that and I also understand the two procedures polishing tabs and removing glue. But I have seen two people try the thrust washer addition and neither made much difference (on one nothing) . So if I am missing something please tell as I can share it with folks. I do understand what is being attempted as on older machines we just adjusted the locknut and screw in the face plate of the clutch thus lengthening the thrust rod, even in some cases a fresh rod and bal would fix it. Also cos its internet stuff you may not realise I am 75 and been around bikes since I was 16 , never took my bike to a shop, no need to. Best regards from the Old Fart ?

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20 hours ago, lineaway said:

In this I disagree based on the fact that IF you do not have the right equipment you can easily finish up with a clutch basket that's out of balance. Now IF you have a good drill press and a calibrated center dial go for it. Trouble is I have seen folks spend money replacing parts when they mess them up and in this case I do not know who I am making suggestions too so I take the safest route to begin with, I trust you see my reasoning. As for the link I know that to be a good product and we did similar procedures on triumphs and Nortons back in the 60's ?

 

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Just now, Eric Brackenbury said:

In this I disagree based on the fact that IF you do not have the right equipment you can easily finish up with a clutch basket that's out of balance. Now IF you have a good drill press and a calibrated center dial go for it. Trouble is I have seen folks spend money replacing parts when they mess them up and in this case I do not know who I am making suggestions too so I take the safest route to begin with, I trust you see my reasoning. As for the link I know that to be a good product and we did similar procedures on triumphs and Nortons back in the 60's ?

 

Adendum I wanted to point out this clutch package https://www.splatshop.co.uk/csp-p2g-precision-to-grip-complete-clutch-beta-evo.html is specificaly designed for race bikes  "- A Clutch designed for racing use, with a very strong and precise starting grip, even in situations of extreme stress and use"  So may give not so technical minded mechanics the wrong ideas.

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Since your up in years, you might not want to reply to people that might have passed on. The guy with the 9 year old post has not been seen in 7 years. And for the most part these suggestions are 4 the 2 stroke clutch. The 4 t is a different animal. Also all of the newer clutches have improved dramatically since Dan started this thread. I do not understand people working on new bikes, when they should be out riding them.

 I too might of wrenched more than once on a bike through my 50 years of riding.

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Hi Eric ? that looks like the Beta “Factory” clutch. The thing that bugs me about the factory clutch basket is it is directly coupled to the primary gear without the cush drive rubber thingys. I’ve seen lots of these shatter the teeth off the primary gear. 

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Thanks for the different perspectives on this clutch shim mod.  I am not a picky rider but when the adjustments are easy enough to try out...I just go ahead and test them for the fun of it...and to learn.  I have done the original clutch mod (which did make a noticeable difference), added the shims (nothing too  noticeable) and did have washers under the clutch springs.  I took the washers out when I put in the shim, but I think I am going to put those back in since it did make a difference on the clutch pull.  I need to ride the bike on real terrain to see if the shims make any difference or not. 

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Much of this is fine tuning for personal preference anyway. It might be better to have the option for us old guys for a slave cylinder with a slightly smaller diameter and longer throw since we’re reducing the clutch pull with lesser spring preload. The other thing I wonder is are we losing some throw with lever adjustment. Not something I’d typically think about since my main worry adjusting the clutch is the engagement point. Almost seems like some kind of rising rate system would work. Hmmm more ideas to chew through.

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17 hours ago, dan williams said:

Hi Eric ? that looks like the Beta “Factory” clutch. The thing that bugs me about the factory clutch basket is it is directly coupled to the primary gear without the cush drive rubber thingys. I’ve seen lots of these shatter the teeth off the primary gear. 

Interesting but it's not the same as my factory clutch so perhaps its now updated, I can say for sure mine had issues and doing tabs , removing excess glue adding washers on top of the springs have turned it into a very smooth mechanism that I no longer have to worry about and I can concentrate on riding now :-)

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Please forgive me, as I haven't had time to read all 27 pages of this thread,

I just picked up a 2000 Rev3 270 last week (first trials bike), and about made a fool out of myself experiencing the cold stick while test riding the bike.  The seller was like, "oh yeah, they do that."  I about bought a BMW too, lol...  I'm relieved to find out he wasn't blowing 2-stroke smoke up my rear-end, and it's an actual thing and he wasn't just trying to cover up some internal damage.

 

I'm curious if in the ~10 years since this was first posted if there is available an (aftermarket?) clutch pack that takes care of the problem with excess glue. 

 

Having just bought the bike, I've already torn it down and am going through it, replacing broken/worn parts etc.  If I can spend another $10 on a "nicer" clutch pack that's already had these issues fixed, I'd be all over that.  Or do I just need to relegate myself to spending 5+ hours every time I replace the clutch?  That being said, I'm not even sure how long I should expect trials clutches to last.  The clutch on my trail bike has lasted many many years since I'm pretty easy on clutches.  I have to assume trials riding is a bit more abusive to clutches.

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Just use Putoline Nano Trans GP/N-Tech gear oil and save yourself all the hassle. Honestly, from my experience that's all you need to do! I tried all the filing and messing about and none of it really worked, once I put the nano Trans in, that was the end of it...sorted.

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Oh, I forgot, but I just looked back at my contributions to this thread: I also replaced the two thicker clutch plates for standard thickness ones. I can't say for sure whether this was what made the difference or whether it was simply the nano-trans oil but I suspect it was the oil. FYI, the Evo uses 6 friction plates, the outer two are slightly thicker for some reason. I replaced the two outer plates for standard thickness ones (the same as the inner four). Still think it's just the oil though!

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p.s. I'm still on the same clutch pack and have never needed to replace it (with the exception of the two outer friction plates of course), I've had the bike at least four years.

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