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dan williams

The Beta Clutch Fix

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It works ok but it did before. I’m just weirded out by the basket moving. That could only happen with play in the transmission input shaft. I’m still trying to sort out how the logic of this shakes out. The Japanese video shows no movement of the basket and some dead travel before  the throwout mechanism engages the pressure plate. I’ll pull the whole thing next week probably but I want to ride tomorrow so it’s fine for now. Not trying to fix a problem. Just trying to understand.?

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Just removed my plates to do the mod , I appear to have two different types of plate , all but 2 of them have larger gaps between the tabs.the one on the left on the photo is really sticky and looks like it will benefit from the mod ,the others look ok , am I missing something?image.thumb.jpeg.d4ec965973426ff74a2c7c4ce3f5766e.jpeg

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Yeah that's "normal". Beta replaced the two outer plates with slightly thicker plates so you will have four 2.7mm thick frictions and two 3.0mm thick frictions. Not sure of the logic behind this. I usually replace the 3.0mm thick plates with a couple of the 2.7s and dress them all to the Clutch Fix document. Or you could just dress the 3.0mm plates like the others and put it back together. The newer plates are a lot less gluey so the removal of the glue between the pads is optional. The older plates were a mess.

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1 minute ago, dan williams said:

Yeah that's "normal". Beta replaced the two outer plates with slightly thicker plates so you will have four 2.7mm thick frictions and two 3.0mm thick frictions. Not sure of the logic behind this. I usually replace the 3.0mm thick plates with a couple of the 2.7s and dress them all to the Clutch Fix document. Or you could just dress the 3.0mm plates like the others and put it back together. The newer plates are a lot less gluey so the removal of the glue between the pads is optional. The older plates were a mess.

 

4 hours ago, hgas said:

Just removed my plates to do the mod , I appear to have two different types of plate , all but 2 of them have larger gaps between the tabs.the one on the left on the photo is really sticky and looks like it will benefit from the mod ,the others look ok , am I missing something?image.thumb.jpeg.d4ec965973426ff74a2c7c4ce3f5766e.jpeg

First I would suggest a thorough clean, looks like at som point the oil was left in too long and all that sticky stuff stuck to part of the plates sitting in t6he dirty oil. Do you mean two of the plates are thicker, if so thats correct. so clean then do the mod and clean agin before reinstalling. Let us know the results you get.

 

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Thanks for the replies lads much appreciated , so the 3mm thick plates go back and front do they? Eric your right when I took the clutch pack out it was all stuck together in one big mess.when I was riding yesterday my clutch was gradually getting worse and worse to the point where I had to wind the adjuster all the way in to have any clutch at all! Looking forward to seeing the results after I’ve done it , I’ll keep you posted 

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I've carried out the clutch fix but think I may have messed up - it looks like I've not got all the tabs square when doing the final polish after cleaning the faces with a needle file (see pic). Will I need new plates? My worry is, if there's excess play, it may damage the clutch basket.

IMG_20200915_171318.jpg

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Wow! Rushed it a bit did we? That much play would probably result in twisting of the plates. I'm not sure there's a way to recover this as all the faces on the tabs have to be at least close enough to wear in. You also appear to have leaned in pretty heavy cleaning the glue from between the pads. All it takes is a light touch and as with any filing less per stroke is always better than too much. Anybody around Leeds got some spare plates to help this guy out?

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21 hours ago, Inny said:

I've carried out the clutch fix but think I may have messed up - it looks like I've not got all the tabs square when doing the final polish after cleaning the faces with a needle file (see pic). Will I need new plates? My worry is, if there's excess play, it may damage the clutch basket.

IMG_20200915_171318.jpg

Like Dan says ? 

Perhaps if you do any more tabs start with an 18cm cut 6 Barret needle file and maybe then a fine emery paper (not wet and dry) from a jewellers supply house. HS Walsh & Sons, Hunter House, Biggin Hill Airport, Churchill Way Biggin Hill, Kent TN16 3BN United Kingdom. These guys have good materials and will likely sell a couple of sheets of medium and fine rather than a choir, far too much for one job.

AND clean the needle file clean after each tab, you can use a thumb nail and scrap the teeth of the file at a 45% angle.

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Just did part 1 of the clutch mod, cleaning out the glue between the pads using a dremel and a soft grinding wheel. The bike still has a tiny bit of cold stick but it disappears after just a minute or two during the first ride. I have some washers on the way and then after that I'll see if filing the tabs is necessary. I must admit that my dremel wheel wasn't as accurate as the file and microscope/magnifying glass method but it only took me an hour instead of 4 - 8. I'm sure I shortened the life a little bit of the clutch since I have a tiny pile of dust on my workbench now and there were a few times I just nudged the edge of the pads but I'll take it for the improved low idle clutch performance. More to come when the washers get here! 

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19 hours ago, fprintf said:

Just did part 1 of the clutch mod, cleaning out the glue between the pads using a dremel and a soft grinding wheel. The bike still has a tiny bit of cold stick but it disappears after just a minute or two during the first ride. I have some washers on the way and then after that I'll see if filing the tabs is necessary. I must admit that my dremel wheel wasn't as accurate as the file and microscope/magnifying glass method but it only took me an hour instead of 4 - 8. I'm sure I shortened the life a little bit of the clutch since I have a tiny pile of dust on my workbench now and there were a few times I just nudged the edge of the pads but I'll take it for the improved low idle clutch performance. More to come when the washers get here! 

It pays to be conservative doing this kind of mod, it ALSO helps if you use some kind of magnification. A jewellers head set if one is available. With that approach the tabs will show very little reduction in size, one can even make an emery board and use it istead of a file though a cut 6 18cm needle file is the ideal starting tool. Followed buy some medium to FINE emery paper. I also recomend washing the plates after working on them, this keeps the residue from the emery paper out of the engine (remember you are using an abrasive material and that can get into the working parts elsewhere in the engine if not washed off). Note to all I am a goldsmith (for 60 years) so small details are my thing :-)

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Smoothing the tabs is what makes the clutch engagement/disengagement smooth. Cleaning the glue is only about the cold stick. The washers are only a fine tune. They do seem to allow you to put the sweet spot of the engagement where you want it. My bike still has a tiny bit of hydraulic drag but it's not enough to notice riding and is greatly reduced once the gearbox heats up. Riding in the rain/fallen leaves/pine needles  yesterday and I still love the way my bike runs and rides now.

 

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Thanks guys. Really my only concern was the drag that mostly occurred during the cold but in my case it was still a problem even when hot. Now there is only just a little cold stick, so I think it is doing the trick. Now that we have that sorted I can take my time getting a little lighter pull and the engagement where I want it... though I am still learning where I might want it since I'm new enough at this game. The good news is it works so much better now! 

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Another happy customer.

I pulled the plates out of my 2017 EVO 300 - it had always been OK (not fabulous, but OK) but recently started to hang on when the lever was pulled. About 250 hours on it and the plates had about 0.1mm wear on them.

Decided only the two outer plates needed glue removal. Ground a hobby knife chisel blade so it was a neat fit between the friction pads then a quick job to slice out the glue. Quick (careful) cleanup with a thin brass brush in a dremel on low speed to get the loose bits out. Touched up the tabs with a fine needle file and put it all back.

Smooth as a baby's bottom! Clicks between gears far more nicely, clutch releases predictably and faster.

EDIT. I spoke too soon. First few hours were great. Now it's gone back to hanging on for a moment after the lever is pulled. Oh well. When I next get too irritated with it I guess it's going to be a careful look at the basket and maybe a touch up - there was slight wear but it didn't feel too significant, I guess I underestimated.

Edited by bikerpet
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