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US World Round? Never Again?


the observer
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you did not know?......trials in the US is a secret sport......for example just look up the local clubs websites and try to figure our how to get to an event....most of the maps suck and it is hard to figure out the dates etc.....try to find a bike for sale while your at it....

Out of all the club websites i have seen and i have not seen them all my clubs page is probably the best for finding information on events, riders them selves, when and how to get somewhere to an event. But just like any site it needs improvement of content and its getting there.

Here is just a thought. Why don't we advertise more for our national events. I have had the recent idea of getting a trailer or trailers that works like a mobile billboard and park them near an event and which ever town/club is basically hosting where anyone driving by can see it. Maybe even each club has one and uses it to indicate where and when each of their local events is. Just a thought

I know whenever i go ride here i Colorado every time i have my bikes i get lots of people who are dieing to know what the hell that awkward machine is in the back of my truck and i am typically carrying two at a time.

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Out of all the club websites i have seen and i have not seen them all my clubs page is probably the best for finding information on events, riders them selves, when and how to get somewhere to an event. But just like any site it needs improvement of content and its getting there.

Here is just a thought. Why don't we advertise more for our national events. I have had the recent idea of getting a trailer or trailers that works like a mobile billboard and park them near an event and which ever town/club is basically hosting where anyone driving by can see it. Maybe even each club has one and uses it to indicate where and when each of their local events is. Just a thought

I know whenever i go ride here i Colorado every time i have my bikes i get lots of people who are dieing to know what the hell that awkward machine is in the back of my truck and i am typically carrying two at a time.

I get sick of this thread and ones like them because:

We do NOT need a world round. We dont even have a competitor at that level.

Our freaking organization in the usa, cant (apparently for 30 some years) even stipulate basic rules, Example:

1. Class structures, for one.

Intermediat is expert is novice, depending what part of the USA you live in.

2. Course (section) marking and rules.

Some clubs wanna ride this way, that way, shipts! I saw flags at some trials for boundries, who the hell uses flags anymore?

3. sandbagger movement

all but the pro class, seem to have a theory about national competitions, that theory is "I'll pick a class that I think I have more than a 80% chance of winning. This is apposed to the ideal that everyone that rides "expert" level would get to the nationals to see who is the top expert. But there is the problem, (see #1) what exactly is expert

Who the hell cares? motocross used the be inexpensive sport, you spent what you felt you needed to on your bike. not anymore, entry fees have skyrocketed, you have to be in AMA, track members, amongst lots of other things, which costs money... Which then is confiscated so in the end all we accomplish is, we support some overpriced sodapop or energy drink, that apparently hasnt figured out that there is an economic crissis in the usa, and just again raised the prices on their products, all at the time where the whole damn country is screaming bloody "uncle" with higher taxes, higher cost of living, and no goddamn jobs...

Yep, my vote practically and selfishly is... keep it a "turd" as Ishy says...

Well wait, actually to me it is more like keep it a "Baby Ruth" (caddyshack reference) To the uninitiated it Looks like a turd, and can clear a pool, but we know it really is good.

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I get sick of this thread and ones like them because:

We do NOT need a world round. We dont even have a competitor at that level.

Our freaking organization in the usa, cant (apparently for 30 some years) even stipulate basic rules, Example:

1. Class structures, for one.

Intermediat is expert is novice, depending what part of the USA you live in.

2. Course (section) marking and rules.

Some clubs wanna ride this way, that way, shipts! I saw flags at some trials for boundries, who the hell uses flags anymore?

3. sandbagger movement

all but the pro class, seem to have a theory about national competitions, that theory is "I'll pick a class that I think I have more than a 80% chance of winning. This is apposed to the ideal that everyone that rides "expert" level would get to the nationals to see who is the top expert. But there is the problem, (see #1) what exactly is expert

Who the hell cares? motocross used the be inexpensive sport, you spent what you felt you needed to on your bike. not anymore, entry fees have skyrocketed, you have to be in AMA, track members, amongst lots of other things, which costs money... Which then is confiscated so in the end all we accomplish is, we support some overpriced sodapop or energy drink, that apparently hasnt figured out that there is an economic crissis in the usa, and just again raised the prices on their products, all at the time where the whole damn country is screaming bloody "uncle" with higher taxes, higher cost of living, and no goddamn jobs...

Yep, my vote practically and selfishly is... keep it a "turd" as Ishy says...

Well wait, actually to me it is more like keep it a "Baby Ruth" (caddyshack reference) To the uninitiated it Looks like a turd, and can clear a pool, but we know it really is good.

Well you are just a ray of sunshine, aren't you?

In an effort to erase part of your ignorance: the NATC has never proposed to control trials at the club level, their rules and organization only apply to the National Series.

Edited by the observer
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I get sick of this thread and ones like them because:

We do NOT need a world round. We dont even have a competitor at that level.

Our freaking organization in the usa, cant (apparently for 30 some years) even stipulate basic rules, Example:

1. Class structures, for one.

Intermediat is expert is novice, depending what part of the USA you live in.

2. Course (section) marking and rules.

Some clubs wanna ride this way, that way, shipts! I saw flags at some trials for boundries, who the hell uses flags anymore?

3. sandbagger movement

all but the pro class, seem to have a theory about national competitions, that theory is "I'll pick a class that I think I have more than a 80% chance of winning. This is apposed to the ideal that everyone that rides "expert" level would get to the nationals to see who is the top expert. But there is the problem, (see #1) what exactly is expert

Who the hell cares? motocross used the be inexpensive sport, you spent what you felt you needed to on your bike. not anymore, entry fees have skyrocketed, you have to be in AMA, track members, amongst lots of other things, which costs money... Which then is confiscated so in the end all we accomplish is, we support some overpriced sodapop or energy drink, that apparently hasnt figured out that there is an economic crissis in the usa, and just again raised the prices on their products, all at the time where the whole damn country is screaming bloody "uncle" with higher taxes, higher cost of living, and no goddamn jobs...

Yep, my vote practically and selfishly is... keep it a "turd" as Ishy says...

Well wait, actually to me it is more like keep it a "Baby Ruth" (caddyshack reference) To the uninitiated it Looks like a turd, and can clear a pool, but we know it really is good.

Will someone nominate this man to head the NATC

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Jeez man, WTC and Natinals aside, do you really want to be THAT regulated? Feck that!

pPart of the fun of running club trials is breaking up the monotany and riding for fun. Not everything has to be for a championship or series! I can put two sticks in the ground and say everyone needs to arrive here at the end, and everyone will ride it at their own expense, have fun trying it in their own way, take a few points and go home wondering what they did wrong. I love flags on one side, the other, well are you dumb or what, one will do! Sticks are at the end! :thumbup:

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It looks like everyone is missing the real reason World Rounds aren't making it in the USA. Since I got kicked out of a WR, it hasn't been the same. :guinness:

Johnny's another candidate for the NATC

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Make it happen! If I'm nominated, I'll proudly represent the riders and THEIR best interest.

And I am sure you would, indeed. Yet is seems that Johnny alone may not effect the original topic of the WTC, as that is not within the scope of the NATC.

Although I really cannot get a grip on it, it seems to me it really takes a club ready and willing to devote a lot of work and possibly invest between 30-40 grand going in, and loose potentially half in returns. Need here is big sponsors with big advertizing dollars to play with. Then you gotta man sections, take another ton of hardcore volunteers. A lot of folk ain't driving out now, just to watch! :rolleyes:

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  • 1 month later...

Jeez man, WTC and Natinals aside, do you really want to be THAT regulated? Feck that!

pPart of the fun of running club trials is breaking up the monotany and riding for fun. Not everything has to be for a championship or series! I can put two sticks in the ground and say everyone needs to arrive here at the end, and everyone will ride it at their own expense, have fun trying it in their own way, take a few points and go home wondering what they did wrong. I love flags on one side, the other, well are you dumb or what, one will do! Sticks are at the end! :thumbup:

After a small hiatus from this site, I found this thread, with my last post.

Half everyone missed the point, which is not difficult to do, because of my (lack of) writing style, which is basically type at less than half the speed that I think, and lose half the idea between fingers and the mind.

My point is:

It is NOT about controls as such, it is more about making things be "the same" from Maine to Cali... Some "standards" for competition.

Directly at Copey, why even mark the sections then, wouldnt that be too "regulated"? Lets just all drive 150 miles and have a dam trail ride, then vote on who rode best, why even keep score, or even vote? Trials is a competition at it's core, it is the core and the 90% hard core people that show up to setup sections and collect the entry fees, pass out scorecards and punches et all. Maybe your club is a commecial venture, but I doubt 90% are. This means nobody is getting rich, or has any other reason to be president or any officer or even the trials master, EXCEPT the love of the "sport" of the thing we call TRIALS. Hell, Hard core trials enthusiasts, well, it is the ONLY reason trials events or clubs still even exists in the few states that have clubs.

All I can say is, that the 20% of you that are there "just to have fun" are the ones that ride 2 or 3 times a year max, when the weather is perfect and there is nothing else to do "today". Maybe you are an exception copey, I dont know. but, You know I am right, for 99% of the non exceptions: everyone you know or have known that "gives up" on trying to push themselves to get better, aka loses the competitive (yet fun) spirit, sells the bike in 4-12 months from that day. So lets hope like hell, that people will enjoy trials like I have, but honestly the fun is beating the other guy. which means we have to have a way to "judge" that, aka trials & rules.

end copey rant....

I mean at some clubs, a 5 is a 3, and some clubs have strong opinions about going backwards, vs forwards or sideways, then when you get to a national, you find what you have found completely acceptable, thrown out because the judge at some national's section #2 (making this up from a real scenario, numbers and names not actual), believes in "old school trials" and if you stop for any reason, that is a 5 in his mind. So, he can't wait to justify giving you a 5... It is this subjective BS that could be avoided if "EVERYONE" rode with same rules and expectations. Instead of club A saying you can veer outside the flags here (my favorite quote "a little") where most other clubs use ribbons that you cant cheat on, nor have to debate how much was too much cheating?

Trials in the usa, is half rediculous, right now where novice at one club is amature at another. Where everyone makes "split signs" in whatever fasion they felt "might work OK (another quote "cause we're used to it") mentality.

Then we have stupid asinine rules like 'cant take hand off handlbars with your foot down, even when it is 100+ degrees, or to even push your eye glasses back on your face (safety issue, not a foul, no sheet!) And this is all because 15 or 20 some years ago, competitors used to try to lift the bike by the back fender to improve his line/position. Lets make the rules Stipulate the problem, then. It is not the stopped and having to wipe the sweat from your eyes, or push glasses back on, no it was attempting to modify your line/bike attitude "with your hand(s) off the handle bars, that was the problem! Jesus Chrysler.

Over doing this whole point thing probably, but NOTHING successfull in the USA has completely different set of "standards" from one end of the usa to the other. IMCA, Nascar, bowling, baseball, football checkers or pickelball, whatever... They dont say well screw it, we'll use 2inch strips of paper paper plates or some such BS, to mark the out of bounds or the goal line. it is kind of supposed to be a standard. This way everyone gets used to "in game conditions", be it in Los Angeles or freaking New York... This means the what and how to ride trials, and if you happen to be fortunate enough to travel, you dont lose 50-15% of your competitiveness just because you are used to the rules at yoru club, instead of as the NATC has mentioned like a COLORED by Class split marker, instead of a Paper plate with unledgable markings on it, when you are navigating the courses.

No, standards are a good thing. football fields are 100 yards goal to goal, Marked with WHITE paint or chalk, and not 90 yards at Florida, and 110 in Colorado or marked with a Sharpie.

I would like to also see a national site (we used to rely on Plonker's press for this) that would publish event results for all clubs. IT could probably be done as a forum where the secretaries for clubs logon and post the results in a specified form, then anyone else shows up to view without the rights to POST ANYTHING in that forum/thread... A place that is commercially funded like trials central could be such a place, but then again it could be a task USA should take on themselves (natc)?

BTW, I like the NATC guys, & whenever I type out my complaints (rants), I dont/I am not hating of any of them, I complain about where I believe things are not quite right. nothing personal. Sure I tossed a flame towards Copey, but that is all in fun, I met him and dont have a bad thing to say about him.

I know people pee an moan affter I seemingly peed and moaned on here, I really dont want to seem that way when you read it. Yeah, I need a better way to express my self sure, but frankly I can not figure out how to put it without losing the "point" or my opinion, from the politcaly correct adjective/adverb handbook, that I don't possess.

Flame away... :popcorn:

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My point is:

It is NOT about controls as such, it is more about making things be "the same" from Maine to Cali... Some "standards" for competition.

Directly at Copey, why even mark the sections then, wouldnt that be too "regulated"? Lets just all drive 150 miles and have a dam trail ride, then vote on who rode best, why even keep score, or even vote? Trials is a competition at it's core, it is the core and the 90% hard core people that show up to setup sections and collect the entry fees, pass out scorecards and punches et all. Maybe your club is a commecial venture, but I doubt 90% are. This means nobody is getting rich, or has any other reason to be president or any officer or even the trials master, EXCEPT the love of the "sport" of the thing we call TRIALS. Hell, Hard core trials enthusiasts, well, it is the ONLY reason trials events or clubs still even exists in the few states that have clubs.

All I can say is, that the 20% of you that are there "just to have fun" are the ones that ride 2 or 3 times a year max, when the weather is perfect and there is nothing else to do "today". Maybe you are an exception copey, I dont know. but, You know I am right, for 99% of the non exceptions: everyone you know or have known that "gives up" on trying to push themselves to get better, aka loses the competitive (yet fun) spirit, sells the bike in 4-12 months from that day. So lets hope like hell, that people will enjoy trials like I have, but honestly the fun is beating the other guy. which means we have to have a way to "judge" that, aka trials & rules.

end copey rant....

Jeez Mitch, you been out in the heat too long today or what! Variety is the spice of life, and if you got out of KS a bit more, you might find that.

I doubt you would do well in the UK, as they are all over the board depending upon the club as well. You guys may be consistant with your application of rules and guidelines, ans maybe ALL hardcore in your club(which seems true), yet others, and once again depending upon the event, may want to do something different. I have found a lot of variences while kicking around, and it is all good.

I may decide to use sticks on the day, with a non-stop rules! Possibly a modified gate trial where you can go as you like? Possibly pie plates or flags with direction and a stop-n-hop? Possibly compress the odd classes into just three lines of difficulty on the day, or even two!

Mind you, we are noy talking about regional or national series here, just club events that vary and add to a varied environment whereever you may go, thea break the mold for some and add both difficulty and interist for others. You gotta take it all in stride.

As far as classes go, no they are sometimes a bit odd in the names, yet the end result s seem similar. Personally, I think we have too many in some cases, and a few sandbaggers as well. :rolleyes:

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Jeez Mitch, you been out in the heat too long today or what! Variety is the spice of life, and if you got out of KS a bit more, you might find that.

I doubt you would do well in the UK, as they are all over the board depending upon the club as well. You guys may be consistant with your application of rules and guidelines, ans maybe ALL hardcore in your club(which seems true), yet others, and once again depending upon the event, may want to do something different. I have found a lot of variences while kicking around, and it is all good.

I may decide to use sticks on the day, with a non-stop rules! Possibly a modified gate trial where you can go as you like? Possibly pie plates or flags with direction and a stop-n-hop? Possibly compress the odd classes into just three lines of difficulty on the day, or even two!

Mind you, we are noy talking about regional or national series here, just club events that vary and add to a varied environment whereever you may go, thea break the mold for some and add both difficulty and interist for others. You gotta take it all in stride.

As far as classes go, no they are sometimes a bit odd in the names, yet the end result s seem similar. Personally, I think we have too many in some cases, and a few sandbaggers as well. :rolleyes:

Cope,

Definitely hot enough to have considered to head to NMTA's event, way way up on a hill, just because the expected high was under 80...

I cant speak nor debate for the people in the "UK" since I will hardly ever get that chance to se one let alone ride one. But I do travel, I know a person that that travels even more, that mentions what I mentioned A LOT.

You are using the mentality, that keeps "trials" as a ESOTERIC clan type thing. Pick a damn sport, again my list is motocross to fricken pickleball, in the usa, that people dont "assume" nor expect that there would and should be some dag blam consistantly consistant "rules" if nothing else for "normality". Damn, even those backwoodsy swampbuggy racing people from the south understand the idea of having standards and RULEs that are consistant. they dont build an "expert buggy" that is a "Pro Buggy" at the other club, dang.

It is freaking rediculous that clubs cannot agree to have the 5 or 6 basic classes, as a standard, as well as how stuff is marked, from loops to sections. This way when you head from kalamazoo whereverthehell, and end up at MATT, NTTA, or RMTA, you could expect (within a fair amount of flex I assume) that if I ride at level 4 (intermediat, or CLUBMAN as it was at the NATIONALS) then I can PRE ENTER any event across the USA and know: what type of sections I would expect, more or less how daring, risky, and skills that the INTERMEDIAT class would be. No, today, I load my bike, head to farmville whereeverthehell's club, and have to go and double check the sections to see if this club's intermediate is everyone else's f'ing master class type of sections.

I don't and my other friends or even my brother, doesnt travel across the USA, to race motocross, and wonder "what skill level" am I competing at, he knows he is ranked at a "bracket" that is accepted almost universal across the USA. They don't have to go "hmm, this class is for retired Pro 500 CC riders?" NO! He knows it is amature skill/class riders. Everyone they meets seems to be of similiar background, Skill, and and they enjoy the close racing. I also know, if I wanna try it out, that there is no use me entering that class, because I am novice or beginner motocross, no matter what track I goto. Plus they all pretty much mark the tracks all the same, tires or haybales. there arent tracks that suddenly think, "ya know what, I think there are like 40 or50 55 gallon drums out back at dad's farm, so we'll mark the tripple jump landing into turn 6 with those... Huh Hyuk" Shieet man, you (as a competitor) would jump up there and think you jumped clear off the track to the trash can area, by accident.

They dont run around an mark football fields with Sharpies and paper plates. This is all s stupid arguement to say "aw hell, Ill cut branches off the ol pine tree out by section 5, and we'll paint them with used oil, ATF on the right, 10-w40 on the left, and use lighted Tiki torches for the exits.

This kind of crap, might be "cool" or good enough for a weekend romp for a clan of beer drinkers out for a thrill, on TST (Tight Single Track) or off road trail ride poker run or hares crambles... While I mention hare scrambles & last man standing enduro competitons, you dont notice that they seem to have adopted a crap load of "rules or standards' that they think are important for competition and safety?

Anyway, I dont think it is right for trials club to just decided to use these stupid old backweed ways, anymore than riding without a helmet is right for TRIALS competitions anymore. The whole country has been able to figure this out, there are good ideas and there are bad ones, lets work on keeping the good ones.

Edited by Sting32
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  • 2 weeks later...

The real problem in the US is not with sponsors but with AMA. They don't support trials and they are the only true organization in the states that could put together such an event in this climate. Around here there are a whole group of clubs that are all fractured because there is no firm direction from above. I have promoted motorsports events. It is possible to cover the cost of the rooms, get Holiday Inn as a national AMA trials sponsor. Done deal, if AMA comes on board then we would need political backing. Think NY state is ever going to allow a state park to host a World round again? Not without some pretty strong political support.

Besides this discussion is not really valid if they truly want 'world rounds'. Every other part of the world has to raise funds to send their teams to Europe, why should Europeans not have to raise the funds to compete in world rounds around the world promoting the support as they go. Same idea as our 'World Series' in baseball, how come there has never been a team in the World Series from Japan?

Right now it's the Europeans holding all the cards, its their game if we want to play. And I would like to play.

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