bmseven Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 As said all bikes can be hopped, just how well is only influenced by the riders skill and the bike setup. Check the Toni Bou acoustic session for more proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzralphy Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Sweetgas. Sorry I missed the point you are in USA and have no trials shops. You really have to get out and go look or take a punt on one brand. Please don't select a bike best for hopping - you use good technique for that. Select a bike for balance and feel. Balance and feel are both subjective and you need to try a bike. You'll get a feel for the preferred bike and will build a relationship with the importer or shop which should last 20yrs. I have known guys buy a bike NEW and untested by phone and have it for sale 4hr after delivery because it is the wrong feel!!!!!!!. Be careful. If I was a beginner I'd buy a 200cc bike for the first couple of years. Oh and ALL the brands have issues in one form or another because the factories as small, and only make limited production runs. Hence select a brand by also selecting the better support in USA. Make some phone calls. Lots of phone calls. I'm stuck on Beta. Ask Chewy (on this site) - he gets a new bike (actually 2 bikes) every year and flips between brands often - for his opinion. Edited February 15, 2012 by NZRalphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Fabulous thanks for that. Suppose it makes the point if you want to compete at the top level today you will probably have learnt it all on a bicycle first. Also shows you dont need a super trick bike just loads of talent Glad you enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Glad you enjoyed it. OTF look closely... he modded the frame, put rigid MTB forks and front v-brake on and also an MTB crankset.... quite clearly he's riding out of class! Edited February 15, 2012 by Rosey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 OTF look closely... he modded the frame, put rigid MTB forks and front v-brake on and also an MTB crankset.... quite clearly he's riding out of class! Trust you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think there should be a sticky or FAQ or something that includes unbiased data of each bike brand. All the info in one place! Most peoples first thread have to do with getting a bike and not knowing exactly which one to get. It's not as simple as just ride it and see what you like the best. It's not as simple as just listening to someone saying I like my 20xx ___ bike. At least not for someone who wants an in depth analysis when making a decision. I like to go overboard in how much I know about each bike. (Even if I don't buy it) For example: I didn't know that the first Gas Gas Pro had some problems and that they need more care than Montesas. Also after some digging I found out that the first year of the Ossa had some problems. But why did I have to dig? and what were the exact common problems? What other bikes have problems? What is good on the ABC bike and what is good on the XYZ bike? It would be cool to have all that data in one place. I want to know things like Sherco's need new linkages each year or that Scorpas have more power and needs less maintenance than a Sherco. What mechanical problems can one expect from each bike. What things to consider or what features to look for when buying a bike. A new person to trials probably won't think about how easy the air filter is to change until after they own the bike. So is one easier to change that another? If so then lets put that data someplace. Let people submit everything they know about each bike in one place. (or one place for each bike) There is a lot of little things scattered around in threads all over the place, But you won't know what to search for until you know what there is to search for. (How would me or a new person know to avoid XYZ bike because of something like a transmission problem unless we search specifically for that) Another example: Which bike's clutchs had a dragging problem? I know that the Montesa Cota315R clutch would never feel fully disengaged when you pull the lever in. Any others? What years? For some this is a factor. Others don't care. There is no such unbiased data. There is no perfect bike! Consider them all lightweight Euro junk for the most part and that will give you a good basis to start from. The Montesa(honda) likely being the only sort of exception, yet it is heavy, reliability seems high, and you cannot get new ones here. They all have their quirks! You stated you were an Expert rider at one time, well they come in just about two flavors. Those who are still stupid enough to try anything, and those who are now a bit too old and know better. The latter tend to ride well and not tear up much anyway, and know how to keep their stuff well maintained. I could potentially ride any of them for years without major issues, yet the young aggressive kid might manage to explode it on a regular basis. It seems to vary that much! And on the same token, all the bikes are that good it seems. Seems most of us do not neccessarily require "trick" bikes. Just a good workhorse will do. Little of that will make you a better rider. Nor will a larger displacement. Then comes the question, what do you REALLY want tto do with the bike? Sit there and hop in circles all day? Ride trails, ride events? Fact is any good 125 will take 90% of us over, up and arround 100% of anything we need to doo! And because you really have to work the bike, it makes you a better rider in the process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetgas Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 There is data. I would rather have biased data than no data. Here is a good example - Just like you said. Montesa is the exception but its heavy. Lets add that to some data so that people don't have to happen to stumble across this thread to find that out. There is that info about a Montesa and many other things about each and every bike. I wish we could get it all compiled into one place. I do see your point about no perfect bike etc. But what isn't perfect on each of them? That is what I think would be cool to have data on. I am 'Expert' level and I don't try things that I know I can't make. I make it up or over 99% of the stuff I try and rarely damage a bike in any way. I must be a different flavor? I'm 26. I am pretty sure that anything I can do on a 125 I could also do on a 300(it could take a bit more effort in certain scenarios), but the 300 will also do some hill climbs and desert racing If they made a 600cc trails bike many Americans would probably buy it including me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindie Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Desert race a trails bike? Are you sure? You don't mean a trail bike do you? If so look no further than a KTM 690 Rallye. I think copemech's advice is spot on. Don't over bike yourself from the start, regardless of experience. Get back into the sport on something you can ride the s*** out of and then if need be sell it and move up a size. If your an expert you'll still enjoy a nice 250 and make others look silly with bigger motors. Trials ain't drag racing so massive motors can be a pain unless you really are super duper - or like the cubic capacity badge! Edited February 16, 2012 by pindie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) There is data. I would rather have biased data than no data. Here is a good example - Just like you said. Montesa is the exception but its heavy. Lets add that to some data so that people don't have to happen to stumble across this thread to find that out. There is that info about a Montesa and many other things about each and every bike. I wish we could get it all compiled into one place. I do see your point about no perfect bike etc. But what isn't perfect on each of them? That is what I think would be cool to have data on. I am 'Expert' level and I don't try things that I know I can't make. I make it up or over 99% of the stuff I try and rarely damage a bike in any way. I must be a different flavor? I'm 26. I am pretty sure that anything I can do on a 125 I could also do on a 300(it could take a bit more effort in certain scenarios), but the 300 will also do some hill climbs and desert racing If they made a 600cc trails bike many Americans would probably buy it including me. I do realize that you are up there in a sort of isolated area. And yes, one of these days I might decide to write the book "Trials bikes according to Cope" although I doubt anyone would publish it. Untill then you are S.O.O.L.! Your needs seem to suddenly vary. You want something that will do long trail single track. Big bore with power? Trials bikes are very specialized, and that narrows the field a bit, not your best hoppers! And none will be desert racers, as the cooling systems are not designed for it. Possibly you have matured a bit if you are no longer a bike basher, and have to be at work on Monday, yet I still wonder. I was your age once when I did a return to MX back before you were born... Edited February 17, 2012 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetgas Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 My little brother dominated at a desert race. A very rough difficult one where most guys didn't even finish (fried their clutches, crashed, ran out of energy etc). He was using a 2011 Gas Gas 300 pro and is a champ rider. The other guys were on KTM monsters and got their A$$ kicked... If you are board look up the 5 miles of hell trail ride in Utah (google 5MOH) then imagine racing through it I'm sure that if someone made a 600cc trials bike it would be my second bike. Unless it was just as light weight and had a switch to limit the power while riding trials. I'm just dreaming now... My main goal is to get back into trials, but still had a hope of other benefits on the same bike. Over the last few long days of researching I think I have decided to get an 2012 OSSA TR280i with a upgraded head, computer map, and fast throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) My little brother dominated at a desert race. A very rough difficult one where most guys didn't even finish (fried their clutches, crashed, ran out of energy etc). He was using a 2011 Gas Gas 300 pro and is a champ rider. The other guys were on KTM monsters and got their A$$ kicked... If you are board look up the 5 miles of hell trail ride in Utah (google 5MOH) then imagine racing through it I'm sure that if someone made a 600cc trials bike it would be my second bike. Unless it was just as light weight and had a switch to limit the power while riding trials. I'm just dreaming now... My main goal is to get back into trials, but still had a hope of other benefits on the same bike. Over the last few long days of researching I think I have decided to get an 2012 OSSA TR280i with a upgraded head, computer map, and fast throttle. I have not ridden the Ossa, as there are still few around. Reports seem good, although seems they had some tranny issues in '11, hopefully that is sorted. I think if I were up there in Utah, I would want a bike with a Long Ride kit available in order to really get out. Ossa is going to sell the Explorer, on a trials chassis, Beta offers a long ride seat/tank that is easily converted, and so does Scorpa. All depending upon prefs, and money no object, I could be highly tempted by a 300 Beta 4T with a long range setup for that country! Steve Fracy up in BC says he really likes his standard 300, and he has had near everything. Mind you the climate not as dry, so a 2T 300 may still be on the table for you, as they are really torque pigs with power! I like flexability and reliability, so Lo tech for me, as best I can, a AK-47 just works if you know what I mean. Did I mention there is no perfect bike? Edited February 18, 2012 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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