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benwibberley

Btc! What's Happened?!

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Again Minder and Tricky have said the word/phrase success, what is the success you are after? Define PLEASE!

Minder, Scarborough is not "more" suited to a BTC than any other venue I've been to, possibly you meant more suited to no stop?

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Again Minder and Tricky have said the word/phrase success, what is the success you are after? Define PLEASE!

Minder, Scarborough is not "more" suited to a BTC than any other venue I've been to, possibly you meant more suited to no stop?

I meant more suited in that there is a more varied terrain regardless of the rules used. At Westwood the sections were mainly made out of nothing and I think that is where the problem lies. We all try to make the best out of what we have but if you dont have a lot in the first place, should you have a BTC there? The land at Scarborough is massive and has huge scope for loads of decent sections both manmade and natural.

I would measure success in terms of numbers of riders making the championship something interesting again.

Over the past few years you could have almost predicted the results of the few who were riding. 1st and 2nd - Dabill or Brown. 3rd or 4th - Wigg or Challoner (if riding) next haslam or danby, next richardson, morphett, morton, robinson. 1st and 2nd place would sometimes be fairly close then a big step to 3rd and 4th then another big step to the others.

For a successful championship I would want it to be closer with different riders battling it out for different positions. I dont imagine the final standings to differ that much from the previous years however, but it would be more interesting. So far we have had more riders involved and that has to be a GOOD THING. What would you say would be a failure for the changes made by the ACU?

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dont think there are more riders, i am just looking at the entry list for next weekends trial, 60 riders this includes 7 youths, under the last format we had 55 riders plus over 20 on a waiting list ? less income for the organizers so not good

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dont think there are more riders, i am just looking at the entry list for next weekends trial, 60 riders this includes 7 youths, under the last format we had 55 riders plus over 20 on a waiting list ? less income for the organizers so not good

Where can I find the entry list ??

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dont think there are more riders, i am just looking at the entry list for next weekends trial, 60 riders this includes 7 youths, under the last format we had 55 riders plus over 20 on a waiting list ? less income for the organizers so not good

Sorry I was referring to the Championship class not the support class. The one thing I'm in 100% agreement with the ACU is that when the numbers drop to 6 something needs to be done. Although if they want to improve the number of riders they could always include a novice and beginners class. Our club runs them and they get hundreds!!!!!!

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How could Dabil and Brown not win under any rules?

Only if they trip up if the sections are made so easy and either one has a slip up?

Would that not be sure to ailenate the top few that are still doing it?

If you want more numbers (whatever the rules) just make the championship easier?

there are more riders in the top class because there are two routes, and the top route has been made easier because there are no minders?

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Of all the discussion that I have read on this thread, the one thing that stands out is the general feeling that "it is broken" and it needs fixing. Nowhere have I read a reasoned argument as to what is actually wrong. To some it is the overall lack of entries, others a lack of entries in the top class, media coverage, youth entry, rider risk in sections, checkers, spectators etc. Until the problem has been identified no one should be playing with the formula, that is only asking for discontent from within the community.

Within the posts there are many solutions to some of the above listed issues that have been brought up, and if taken to an end, there are likely several different problems that need to be addressed individually. What appears to have happened is that a Hail Mary pass was thrown in a desperate attempt to save a sport, but the team are all blnd to where the end zone is.

It has been said clearly that there is no plan for how the success of this rule change will be measured. So a rule change took place for nebulous reasons with no way to measure if it did any good.

I hope for all of our sakes that something starts to stick, because our market over here in Canada can't support the factories and I still need my annual crate from the Italians.

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Of all the discussion that I have read on this thread, the one thing that stands out is the general feeling that "it is broken" and it needs fixing. Nowhere have I read a reasoned argument as to what is actually wrong.

Difficulty in observing. Lots of people will say things like "it worked in the old days" and "it works in the Scottish" and they'd be right. However, times have changed and while events such as the Scottish will (and should!) continue to be anomalies, there's the bigger picture to consider.

Trials is now much more of a business than it was. That's not to say that there haven't always been commercial pressures but trials never has been a spectator sport in the sense that the uninitiated can quickly understand and become involved and in a media-driven world, the pressure for a manufacturer (and by extension, the importers) to be profitable is exponentially higher. This creates a dichotomy where in order to survive the industry must make the most of a sport that doesn't easily lend itself to commercialisation. Real-world problems vs. traditionalist imperitives = an unstoppable force meeting an unmovable object.

The Scottish has always been no-stop (and likely always will be) and the sections tend to be long and flowing with an overall level of difficulty lower than a BTC round. This makes observing easier and the results less potentially contentious. Transplanting the same rules into much smaller, tighter and more difficult sections results in it being much more difficult to observe accurately and consistently. Which, due to the previously-mentioned pressures on the riders and importers, increases the likelihood of contention which in turn WILL result in fewer and fewer people being willing to observe.

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The Scottish has always been no-stop (and likely always will be)

No it hasn't, it followed the rule change back in the early 80s when stopping and hopping became allowed. The trial got steadily harder and the sections less flowing. Numbers dropped to a point where the trial was in collapse and the organisers were asking people to come and ride. It went back to no-stop in '97. Within 3 years it was over-subscribed.

I guess this was the theory applied to BTC which had become so difficult only 3 riders could make a reasonable attempt at the sections whilst the other 6 struggled. Return it to no-stop, reduce the severity and attract more riders to get the number of participants back up again seems to be the intention. Whether it will achieve that time will tell.

Ultimately, it depends on what is required of a BTC as to how you measure its success. Is it for riders (like it used to be - people watched out of enthusiasm for the sport and that amount of enthusiasm doesn't exist any more and I can't see arena type venues requiring an entrance fee getting it back) is it for spectators or is for promoters to make money out of. Each of those objectives would have success measured differently.

As for rules, I much prefer no-stop as it is a far more pure version of trials and to me what the sport is about. One chance to get it right, not to be allowed to stop, re-align and have another go. But I'm not convinced it will solve anything at BTC level. I don't think there is any more a problem with observing no-stop than there is stop allowed. It is equally possible to be erratic at either and I've seen many rides get away with fives under stop allowed when they have clearly gone backwards. No-stop is no less or more difficult to observe / enforce now than it was 40 years ago.

But does it now fit BTC. Is it what riders really want and will it increase the numbers taking part. That is what this year's experience should establish.

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Recently I asked how many trials riders there were in the UK. The general answer was about 8000 (ACU). Of that 8000 there are 4 riders who are competing on the world stage at the top level. That's just 0.05%! So on that basis, it would make sense that the BTC should be aimed at the majority of riders who do not compete on the world stage regardless of the views of the top riders. With some very very good riders scoring in excess of 100 marks this weekend surely its time to significantly drop the severity of the sections and get more people safely enjoying it?

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Recently I asked how many trials riders there were in the UK. The general answer was about 8000 (ACU). Of that 8000 there are 4 riders who are competing on the world stage at the top level. That's just 0.05%! So on that basis, it would make sense that the BTC should be aimed at the majority of riders who do not compete on the world stage regardless of the views of the top riders. With some very very good riders scoring in excess of 100 marks this weekend surely its time to significantly drop the severity of the sections and get more people safely enjoying it?

But We already have that in the S3 Championship and to turn the BTC into the S3 is, well pointless. You may as well drop it altogether and let the riders go and find the championship abroad that suits them.

We had two National championships one for Stop rules that suits the top top riders and one for No-Stop that suited others. Having two running to the same rules with the same aims does neither any favours.

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But We already have that in the S3 Championship and to turn the BTC into the S3 is, well pointless. You may as well drop it altogether and let the riders go and find the championship abroad that suits them.

We had two National championships one for Stop rules that suits the top top riders and one for No-Stop that suited others. Having two running to the same rules with the same aims does neither any favours.

I think you will find that I didn't say anything about the rules. I merely stated that the majority of riders who wish to ride it should be consulted and the vote goes with them. But the important thing is simply that the severity of the sections must be significantly dropped so the riders can safely enjoy it

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