old trials fanatic Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hi Guy's. Hi Tam. The problem is that there is no guidence to enyone that wants to build a bike to conform. Just general outline. When you start looking at some of the bikes (Winning mostly,) you think to your self, If I fit one like that on my bike will it be exeptable? as I am only Joe Blogs, and not a Star name! Then you look at other components and can see that they were not Pre 65, it is this term, more than what is exepted , that is the problem to most people. Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty_jon Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Can’t see what all the fuss is about, if you don’t like the rules don’t enter! There cant be a lot wrong with the format as they are not short of entries Also the excluded riders where lucky to have a ride if they lied on there entry forms! Edited October 29, 2012 by monty_jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Monty - there were more than 5 bikes that didn't comply but only 5 were excluded That's generally what the fuss is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondars250 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hi All I've read this with interest and also with a bit of disappointment, it sounds as if the bitching has started early?? by the regular crew of course!! Just to try and make the process simple, if I was going to enter the Scottish pre65. What would I do??? 1. I would see where I could get the regs, in my case I would down load them off the Yorkshire classic web site 2. Read them, so what do they say. 3 Frame pre65 design only, so my FB does meet this requirement( even tho it's a whitton) 4. Engine gearbox, yes ok it's a villiers. 5. carb, yes it's a MK1 so again ok so far? 6 Front forks yes ok norton sliders with 35mm internals 7. Wheels, fitted with tubeless rims with tubes fitted so ok 8. So to the entry form I can fill in all of the 8 boxes on the form in and feel happy I'm not going to get into trouble when I get to scrutineering if I get in. Like a few people have said what is the problem!!!! and if like tamdodds said, if you tell lies on the form you deserve to be excluded, and my view is that if you lie and get caught you should not allowed to ride in the trial again full stop. To me it's quite simple tick the boxes answer the questions truthfully and send your entry in and hope for the best and like Big John if I don't get in I will be there observing if they need any help. So hopefully all the moaning will stop but I doubt it some people must get a buzz from it " nowt as queer as folk" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedfromthecircus Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hi All I've read this with interest and also with a bit of disappointment, it sounds as if the bitching has started early?? by the regular crew of course!! Just to try and make the process simple, if I was going to enter the Scottish pre65. What would I do??? 1. I would see where I could get the regs, in my case I would down load them off the Yorkshire classic web site 2. Read them, so what do they say. 3 Frame pre65 design only, so my FB does meet this requirement( even tho it's a whitton) 4. Engine gearbox, yes ok it's a villiers. 5. carb, yes it's a MK1 so again ok so far? 6 Front forks yes ok norton sliders with 35mm internals 7. Wheels, fitted with tubeless rims with tubes fitted so ok 8. So to the entry form I can fill in all of the 8 boxes on the form in and feel happy I'm not going to get into trouble when I get to scrutineering if I get in. Like a few people have said what is the problem!!!! and if like tamdodds said, if you tell lies on the form you deserve to be excluded, and my view is that if you lie and get caught you should not allowed to ride in the trial again full stop. To me it's quite simple tick the boxes answer the questions truthfully and send your entry in and hope for the best and like Big John if I don't get in I will be there observing if they need any help. So hopefully all the moaning will stop but I doubt it some people must get a buzz from it " nowt as queer as folk" Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_the_lad Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Well said Hondars250. Why do people leave there plannning to enter Scotland to the last minute? My plannning for 2013 started after the presentation in 2012 also because my bike is ridden in Yorkshire it not as radical as it looks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hi Guys. Hi Honda Rs. OK Ticking the boxes ,that your components are all OK? So then when it comes to. The dates when these components were made what date do you put for these? As most of them are probably New , surely you have to put 2012 .Which is nowhere near 1964 which is the latest date the components should have been made. So now Who is lying? Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hubs to be Pre ’65 design only. Frame Pre’65 design only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondars250 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hi Charlie Well the answer is in the question really, it has to be "pre65 design" therefore if the hubs are off Mr Whitton and are of pre65 design there's the answer, now if I put bultaco hubs in the wheels from 70s or 80s then I'm asking for trouble? and if your getting at originallity then that's another subject which can be discussed at great length another time! If your otter frame is a replica of the original then I would not feel guilty of putting 63 or what date it was originally manufactured on the entry form as long as your happy it's PRE65 DESIGN again it's simple really, tick the boxes and answer the questions it's not to difficult even I managed it? so no lying as long as it's pre65 design, if I'm not sure I will always ask someone in the know like Alan Whitton or any of the Yorkshire classic lads only because I'm relatively new to the trials scene ecspecially the pre65 one. Good luck with you entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondars250 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hi B4rt You beat me to it !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 What niggles with people is the inconsistency of certain aspects being allowed, overlooked, missed or whatever on some bikes but ruled as unacceptable on another. As I said above, there were more than 5 bikes that didn't comply but only 5 ruled out of the trial. Why? This is just disregarded as though it doesn't happen. There are bikes where the subframe or frame clearly don't comply but for whatever reason are allowed or unoticed. There's no way I'm giving examples as I have no issue with them and have no wish to cause any riders problems - so don't ask for examples. My view is I don't care who is or isn't in, which bikes and components are or aren't acceptable, I've no interest in it, but I can't accept it when people are saying there are no issues and that the process is as simple as it appears when bikes that clearly shouldn't be in the event by the literal interpretation of the rules, clearly are. To refute this is ridiculous and that's what I can't accept - the rules I couldn't care less about as I don't enter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 seperate issue - rule interpretation. Take the Cub Triumph Tiger Cub machines must be fitted with a frame which has tube construction and “swan neck” steering head. In 1964 you could put a Cub engine in a Bantam frame or a Victor style BSA frame if you so wanted. The Faber frame resembles both of these BSA frames in design, none are swan neck but of Pre65 design. So why do you have to have a swan neck frame on your Cub when it can be deemed as Pre65 appearance without it ? - ''Pre65 Design only'' How would you rule on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinshockdude Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 steady on dave,i can see the steam coming out of your ears from here !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondars250 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hi Woody I can't really comment on your niggles because we don't know the who's and what's etc, but I'll take your word for it, but if it was me i would not let it eat away at me, because if they have done something wrong and got away with it good luck to them. But when they get caught they won't be surprised if they are excluded. Also if you don't care about the rules or the trial why are you getting so wound up, it is really simple as B40rt said PRE65 DESIGN. So to your second point a cub if I had a cub as you have discribed above I wouldn't have a problem entering it as long as the mods, frame swaps were available in 64 or before, simple enter the bike as long as no lies are told what's the problem. the only thing I can see is that if you were to use a cub engine in a cub frame then it would have to be a swan neck but if you changed the frame from a cub one then it should be ok again I'm getting bored now, simple enter the bike. The biggest problem is people reading things into it which are not there and creating problems when they should be keeping there mouths shut, riding and enjoying it! The last thing is, it can't be that bad because out of say 500 entries ish for 180 places their are only 3 or 4 complaining about it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 steady on dave,i can see the steam coming out of your ears from here !!! HaHa, I know it probably seems like that but that's the problem with the written word as opposed to conversation, the context it's meant in isn't obvious. It's definitely not something I get wound up over. Life's too short and there are too many Bultacos in the shed requiring attention... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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