199A Numbers

[scot taco]

Thanks to everyone for the replies and help in understanding it.I guess it really doesn,t matter because I believe they looked the same and should be pretty close,if not the same as far as parts go.I am just happy to have finally found one!

[pigbog]

my 199b is a 1983 model and has matching frame and engin numbers. my 198b is a 1981 model also as the same numbers but dose have 3 numbers stamp near the gear filler cap.dose anybody know what they would be there for?

My 198b also has matching numbers. Next to the gearbox filler is stamped "60 MM" - presumably the stroke?

[bondy]

hi pigbog oh so thats what they are. thanks for the info.

[lorenzo]

Very interesting, Harry - would that be "inside information" ?....

And who holds Comerfords records currently ?

[hewson]

Very interesting, Harry - would that be "inside information" ?....

And who holds Comerfords records currently ?

Me thinks Dave Renham ( Bultaco UK )

[b40rt]

Me thinks Dave Renham ( Bultaco UK )

Mystic Meg ?

[hewson]

Mystic Meg ?

Changed me mind , now me thinks its Bondy

[b40rt]

Changed me mind , now me thinks its Bondy

mystic gme ¡

[woody]

earlier a member said that a bike that had mismatching but close numbers could have had an engine removed because it was better and then used as a factory engine in a factory bike , this is not the case.

Blame Don Morley for that one..... I always thought that was unlikely as they'd have been out of sequence for the rest of the model run, unless they skipped numbers.

[stevem75]

The M133 was a sort of pre production Sherpa T . In actual fact any "works" bikes were M100xxx. I'm relatively sure no Sherpas were ever given this designation. Any of the factory Sherpa riders were riding bone stock bikes that were modified to suit. If they had issues they were able to get additional parts or motors from the factory or local distributor. It'd be hard to say how many pro's bikes are still out there. If vesty, rathmell, bulto, schreiber, coultard, etc etc all got one or two bikes for the season over lets say 5 years that would be 50 sherpa t's. Of those how many are still in existence and which ones had their engines swapped out for whatever reason?. Likely a handfull. Motors and frames always matched leaving the factory. What happened after the fact is hard to say. The M199B is sort of rare. To my knowledge there was around 2000 to 2200 built. In north america it is almost nonexistent. I know of half a dozen in canada and perhaps twice that in the states. The m198B is kind of the holy grail as very few were made. My production list says 500 M27 sherpa t's were built. I know this not to be true as I have personally seen serial 801 and 865 . As I've mentioned before if your bike for example says it has serial number M15904703 then there were at least that many made.

Steve

[stevem75]

The M133 could have been called a works bike. It can be seen in some of bultacos bruchures. I think rathmell rode one if not mistaken. It was a sort of bridge model between the 124 125 and 150 151 sherpas. Please re read my post I said that works models began with M100xxx. I'm well aware the M100 was a pursang. But a Pursang serial number would look like this M1000134. Note the extra serial digit. I have photos showing the M100 designation. I realize vesty's bikes were not "stock" but did the factory change them ? or Comerfords? . And when competeing if they needed common parts then more than likely the local distributor was supplying parts as they could. The true works Bultacos came from the factory not the distributor. Having said all this the M100 factory works designation that I have seen applied mostly to TSS and Pursang models. Not sure they would have done that with the Sherpas. There was also a M96 matador which was a pre production bike that factory riders had for 1973 . Apparently 25 were built and only one exists to this day. My research on serial numbers is extensive. I've spoken with many that worked for the factory and at the distributor level. True one off factory race bikes were given the M100 serial designation.

Steve

[stevem75]

Interested in seeing my list from CEMOTO of works bikes and which riders got which numbers?. I don't keep guessing because I don't need to. However I won't debate the fact that the 133 was a model that only factory riders used just as with the M96. Clarify with me if Vesty has his factory bikes do they in fact have the serial numbers on the engine and frame and if so are they production numbers such as the 151 , 159, 199 , 199A ? Thats more what I'm getting at. Yes the riders had factory prepped bikes that were different than stock. Cylinder enlargement, reed valves, exhaust etc etc all would have been changed. Point being the factory bikes were usually a run of bikes pulled off the line and prepped specifically for the riders by the factory. This I won't debate. But to say they are true one off bikes ...... I don't buy it. Vesty's last incarnation of the 199B , that was a one off.

Steve

[pschrauber]

Anyway there where also bikes imported to other countries then Great Britain

like the country the TO come from, we need the numbers of the bike shipped

to the west and over the pond.

To the numbers itself there are also Bultacos with additional numbers made like here:

[sherpa325]

In Australia all the Bultacos I purchased new came together in a wooden crate much the same as today's bikes. All mine were matching numbers from new as were all of my friends bikes.The importers here were required by Bultaco to carry a host of spares, which they had no say in.I can remember looking in the importers warehouse in 1979 and being blown away with the spares they had in stock, complete frames, swinging arms airboxes, tanks, seats, enough spares to build a couple of complete bikes.Most bikes I have seen recently with non matching numbers appear to have had a tough life with many non standard parts, one friend even purchased a 159 325, in bits, with a 64mm crank fitted? How this comes about is open for debate but my guess is that they were correct from the factory. Regarding factory bikes I think there is enough photographic evidence out there to prove that these bikes were indeed factory bikes. Many parts used on these bikes made it into production but many did not. The period 74 - 75 the factory bikes are really quite different to the production bikes, having different frames, tanks, airbox, forks etc, etc. The factory 199 bikes have the frame tubes removed under the engine, reinforced swinging arms with some sporting the fournales type rear shocks. The 199a bikes have a completely different rear subframe to mount the rear guard, a feature which is different to any subsequent production machine. Some factory bikes don't feature the steering lock where as others do, the closer you look at these bikes the more detail changes you find and that's only talking about what you can see. The 64mm stroke engine was tried for some period of time by the factory riders but never went into production, as for reed valves, I have yet to see a Factory Sherpa with one of these.

[hairyharry]

a rare 198B is one of the 10 six speeders that were built for the french importer , every other 198B was a 5 speed..

The DGM stamp on a frame refers to bikes that were imported and sold into italy - that is ANY motorbike

nut just Bultaco's - look at a fantic frame....

Woody have a good weekend! see you there!.....

Edited February 6, 2013 by hairyharry