atomant Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Dabster and Atomant, the definition I gave of innovation is neither flawed nor wrong. Of course words can have different meanings or definitions when used in different circumstances but here we are talking about bringing a new product to market (not racial equality etc) and in these circumstances a product must be a commercial success to be regarded as innovative. In fact some learned business scholars would go further and define innovation as "the first successful commercial application of an idea or invention". It reasonable follows from this that as a design ages and becomes obsolete it is no longer innovative. Ponder the following - a man goes to the doctor and says "I have a problem with my feet" The doctor replies "I am a physician, why are you wasting my time with questions about a unit of measurement" The problem was that you described the term 'Innovation' in specific terms inasmuch as a product had to be a commercial success to be regarded as innovative. Whilst this is one way of using the term, it is not the definitive definition. just saying .... Ponder this .. A man goes to the doctor and says " I have a problem with my foot" The doctor replies " Stop bragging, we know you're a 12" dick" Edited February 20, 2014 by atomant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Dabster and Atomant, the definition I gave of innovation is neither flawed nor wrong. Of course words can have different meanings or definitions when used in different circumstances but here we are talking about bringing a new product to market (not racial equality etc) and in these circumstances a product must be a commercial success to be regarded as innovative. In fact some learned business scholars would go further and define innovation as "the first successful commercial application of an idea or invention". It reasonable follows from this that as a design ages and becomes obsolete it is no longer innovative. wrong again. disagree again. Here we are talking about innovation qualified laterly by you to mean trials bikes. So, Fi on the ossa is just that (innovative) surely as it has never been on a trials bike before (afaik) so is the ossa a commercial success and if not is Fi on that bike immediately not innovative? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 put that in your pipe and smoke it! :moon: :moon: :moon: :hyper: :hyper: :chairfall: :chairfall: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 It is probably fair to say that the FI on the ossa is innovative as afaik it is the first use of crank case injection on a 2t trials that has been sold in reasonable numbers and without knowledge to the contrary commercially viable. You can never be certain it is truly innovative however, the Wal Phillips FI system was tried on all sorts of engines many years ago. Very good Atomant, know anymore? Bent over trials rider with bad back goes into doctors and says "doctor, I've got lumbago" doctor replies snappily "If you don't mind I'll do the diagnosis round here" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Hopefully the person in charge of vertigo stop reading this thread a while back 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Hopefully the person in charge of vertigo stop reading this thread a while back I too thought the same, hell some posting on here have already assigned it to an early grave without seeing a picture? I tell you what it will have, 2 wheels, hardly any seat, two brakes front & Back, off road tyres, and all the common traits of a modern trials bike the rest is speculative if it is innovative then we will have to wait and see? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 It might be innovative depending who you ask......:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) And to know that there are people who said that the No-Stop rule and increased bike weight would amount to nothing! It makes it even possible for a new brand to join the rest. Edited February 24, 2014 by guys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 And to know that there are people who said that the No-Stop rule and increased bike weight would amount to nothing! It makes it even possible for a new brand to join the rest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeninety Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Ive been told by a very knowledgeable source that Vertigo have offered a very significant deal ( he might not think so , but i do ) to Toni Bou and that Montesa are aware . ... and then hell froze over! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruixina Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 ... and then hell froze over! Well, If you consider that the owner of Vertigo is sponsoring Toni Bou this year... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 For some trials is a money making exercise, for others it is a passion ! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Apparently there is two vertigos in exsistence and it will be at the (milan?) show in November? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Interesting - I know one of the features of downhill cycles is the variety of suspension arrangements there are. Could this be the radical thing you suggest I wonder? Also, I am excited to see what the engine design looks like and what 'radical' features they have incorporated. The overall Geometry of a trials bike is so well proven, I wouldn't expect to see anything that moves too far away from the standards that are in place. Maybe a re-distribution of weight could be a factor.. Can't wait to see it to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Infact don't bother. Edited January 9, 2015 by shyted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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