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amiller

Does Bou Still Win?

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Interesting discussion. I heard that when the world round was in the States all the other riders were able to take stock bikes from the US and with a few modifications ride them compared to the Honda team that brought their bikes with them. It certainly sparks this sort of debate ... but is it because their competition bikes are so unique or because Honda has the resources and it is just simpler to ship the bikes. I know if I had the option I would much rather ride "my" bike that I had running just the way I like it, than to try and reproduce it by modifying a brand new bike. It is kind of funny that when Toni moved to Honda people thought he was going to kill his career moving to a 4 stroke now it seems people are saying would he be that good if he was riding a 2 stroke :).

The thing that puzzles me the most is whether having somebody of his caliber helping or hindering the sport... when you see him riding without even having the motor on you can't help feeling a little defeated before you even start... on the other hand it is awesome to realize what a hell of a lot of hard work and talent can actually produce with respect to trials riding.

Edited by michael_t

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bou might be the best, who can argue.... however until the lads won the ssdt and scott he aint a trials rider.. i canot understand if he and machine or so good why they do not enter the biggest trials in trials biggest market place.. prefering to enter a 4 laps of a quarry or an outdoor wtc that has two sections indoors..

Would you say the same about road racing? Was Valentino Rossi not a real champion unless he has ridden the Isle Of Man TT?
I know I have to be careful asking such questions as a Belgian, but I wonder why many take the SSDT as the standard of everything in trials. Patriotism?
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Interesting discussion. I heard that when the world round was in the States all the other riders were able to take stock bikes from the US and with a few modifications ride them compared to the Honda team that brought their bikes with them. It certainly sparks this sort of debate ... but is it because their competition bikes are so unique or because Honda has the resources and it is just simpler to ship the bikes. I know if I had the option I would much rather ride "my" bike that I had running just the way I like it, than to try and reproduce it by modifying a brand new bike. It is kind of funny that when Toni moved to Honda people thought he was going to kill his career moving to a 4 stroke now it seems people are saying would he be that good if he was riding a 2 stroke :).

The thing that puzzles me the most is whether having somebody of his caliber helping or hindering the sport... when you see him riding without even having the motor on you can't help feeling a little defeated before you even start... on the other hand it is awesome to realize what a hell of a lot of hard work and talent can actually produce with respect to trials riding.

You heard incorrect. The top rider for each team brought their own special bike and it went back with them. Other riders brought parts they swapped out. Things such as cylinders, clutches, shocks or in the case of the Top Trial team (then Beta) full motors. But Raga, Caby and Fajardo all had a special bike that was their own.

Edited by sirhc
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Thanks for the correction... it did seem odd to me that they wouldn't bring their own bikes... it just goes to show don't believe everything you hear during trials practice :hyper:

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I say 95% rider, 5% machine.

Absolutely. Thinking otherwise is salve on the ego's of guys like me that are pretty bad but know that having the best bike would make me a an order of magnitude better ;)

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Rossi is a champion but I can never hold him in the same regard as those that risk(ed) their lives at the the TT such as Hailwood.

Bou is the best rider as regards modern WTC but he is not as complete a trials rider as Sammy Miller or Bill Nicholson

Upping the minimum weight limit a making it a condition of WTC entry that the bike is offered for sale at production bike list price immediately after the event would be interesting.

Edited by dadof2

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Upping the minimum weight limit a making it a condition of WTC entry that the bike is offered for sale at production bike list price immediately after the event would be interesting.

...and stifle development

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Thanks for the correction... it did seem odd to me that they wouldn't bring their own bikes... it just goes to show don't believe everything you hear during trials practice :hyper:

or these days anything you hear in the media, social media or forums :hyper:

We're all just speculating anyways since none of us know what Bou's bike is really like. But speculating is the fun part! Personally I believe Bou's factory bike brings it up to the same level as the other Factory bikes. No better or worse, just different being a 4t.

Now if they all had to ride standard bikes? I don't know. Would the extra weight be more of an issue or would it be the lack of power? In the end I think he still wins because it's still all about the rider, but I think he would 5 some of the truly large ups that he cleans on his factory bike.

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Time on bike and pushing the boundaries makes a great rider. The bike helps but its really about works with the human.

14 years ago you could insert Dougie into this topic and you would most likely say it can't get better.

10 years ago you could insert Adam into this topic and say it can't be beat.

20 years ago Jordi...

30 Eddie...

My point is that the rider is who controls the bike. An easy perspective is Jason Finn who seems to be timeless but also innovative.

After drooling over Adam's bike in the US last year I noted down every modification. Small spikes under the foot peg mount, modified carb bowl, bits and pieces t make it different. That's just a visual observation. What bits are different internally? Hrmmmmm I had seen Bou on a Beta in 2006 and thought that he was over his head. He was just getting started and I am eating my words now. Regardless it's about the rider and not as much about the bike.

Are other manufactures focusing on their riders as much as Honda Repsol?

--Biff

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i think it would be very good for World trials if there was a rule that the machines had to be production bikes, but were allowed to be improved. This is what ALL the other manufacturers are running, except Honda who truly uses Factory bikes.

Its the nature of motorsport to always be pushing the rules and trying to get the most out of your machine....it would however be good I think if the playing field was at least totally even. Dont get me wrong, i think Bou is amazing, and a true champion. I dont ever take any achievements away from him. It would just be interesting wouldnt it?

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Rossi is a champion but I can never hold him in the same regard as those that risk(ed) their lives at the the TT such as Hailwood.

Bou is the best rider as regards modern WTC but he is not as complete a trials rider as Sammy Miller or Bill Nicholson

Upping the minimum weight limit a making it a condition of WTC entry that the bike is offered for sale at production bike list price immediately after the event would be interesting.

Upping the weight limit would not be interesting at all.

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In what other motorsport is the playing field totally even? I can't think of one, and don't see the need for it.

Why stop technical development? It can only be to our benefit i.m.o.

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In what other motorsport is the playing field totally even? I can't think of one, and don't see the need for it.

Why stop technical development? It can only be to our benefit i.m.o.

Formula Ford, Renault, XR2, Mini .........

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Its funny where a topic goes in a short amount of time. I guess what got me thinking about this was a training day we had at The Miller Ranch this summer. We had a pretty good group of bikes represented and also a bunch of different skill levels represented. Through out the day I rode all the praticipants bikes, to help with setup and also show them there bikes do eveything just fine, its the rider that is mostly the problem, and also had them ride my bike, Factory 300 Beta.

As the day wore on a few things became very clear. The 14 Repsol 260 Honda was admired and loved by all to look and bench race. The reality of it was it was the hardest bike to ride with good results. That went from a beginner riding it, several levels inbetween, and some Experts. Now this is a bone stock bike keep in mind. The owner even admitted and proved to himself that his results were far better on my Beta, a bike he had never ridden, than on the Honda he was curently competing on.

Few of the issues. The bike turns like a bus, clutch has poor progression, and stock gearing is to high. Those things combined made it hard for all but the top riders to be competent in the sections. Now I know Tony Bou would not be bothered by any of those things but it was still interesting to see over the range of riders we had, all swaping bikes to ride the same sections, that the Honda was the hardest bike to have the easiest ride on for all levels of riders.

Anyway, I know a good rider can make any bike work. I know that Tony could probably ride a TY350 and beat most of the riders in the world. I just thought it would be interesting for 1 time to see the best of the best compete on bone stock entrys.

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