Reliability

[steve_earle]

To be honest, Most posts on this section are regarding peoples problems with bikes asking for advice, The gas gas section is the biggest section so will have more posts about problems probably due to the large number of this make owned compared to other brands.

You rarely see post by people saying " rode the bike today and it had no problems and didn't break down" Just the negative posts odiously.

The notoriously unreliable gas gas boy, Well My son has ridden almost every weekend for the last 3 years with only 1 retire from a stator fault that was caused by being soaked in water a few times due to a bad seal on the casing. It had exceptional maintance from myself and started 1st kick every time and was rode all day even after the sections had finished.

If I was not good at maintaining it, I would be on here every week slagging it off but as It was going well I wasn't on here every week giving it praise.

Bikes these days need alot of maintance including washing and properly drying and a good check over after every ride, People who wash their bikes and leave them in a shed till the next trial and wonder why they have problems are the main contributors to giving a brand a bad name.

I'm not jumping up to defend Gas Gas as I own one, I still think Beta is built slightly better and newer shercos not far behind as I have owned scorpa, beta, gas gas, sherco and now gas gas again in the last 4 years, My current bike is hardly used but the others were older and well used.

Anyway its good fun to have a debate on certain brands, but one thing I will comment on is that I own 2 Gas Gas's but I don't hang around the beta and montesa sections slating them.

I'm only browsing round here cause the mrs is watching Eastenders or some lame Twilight film and this site keeps me from blowing all my money on JCM parts on ebay.

[dadof2]

The point about the GG 50 boy is how wrong GG can get it. I know full well the engine bits are made here, there and everywhere, that is the case with nearly all vehicles. The main problem with the 50 boy was the Selettra ignition made so I am told in Israel. If GG is going to outsource probably on price without good design and quality assurance then they have to carry the can, not pass the buck.

Regarding DLs choice of bike, whatever his reasons, the reliability of a little used bike in the hands of a top rider is not a reliable indicator of how that bike will perform over a longer period in the hands of club level riders.

Since you suggested I have a look at other trials to see the proportions of bikes I had a quick glance at the Scott Programme that was still laying on my desk. I could not be bothered to go through all 200 but the make up is not that different if at all to the Bassenthwaite results I posted. What is noticeable is how infrequently GG have won this time and reliability trial.

[baldilocks]

Post number 1. Is it me or did the poster not actually ask for a review of a gas gas childs motorcycle ?

[baldilocks]

Where was the Beta ignition system made that kept failing on the rev 3 and early Evos ? You know the one that meant I rode round the 2003 SSDT with a complete stator plate and fitting kit suppled by Lampkins in my rucksack. 2010 SSDT Dougie breaks down Monday as ignition system fails. Same happened to him in the Scott and I think James Dabill won on Gas Gas Pro. Why Beta didnt fit a contact breaker system is beyond me.

Sherco main bearings on early models where of such quality they would fail in weeks.

So back to the same point all the bikes have issues. Most of this thread has been of little use to the person who originally asked the question.

[nigel dabster]

They actually asked for experience specifically for post 2012 experience.

Dad off why do you avoid answering the point that if Sir Douglas had a choice why would he chose (in your eyes only james bond) the unreliable GG?

[sherpa325]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a gasgas. They are fantastic to ride and I personally have had zero problems with them. I have owned five Pro's and three of the earlier TXT series and the current bike [2014 300 Racing] is the best bike I have owned. The gasgas clutch and its large engagement range make it easier to slip than other brands, the Reiger shock transforms the rearend and the power and its delivery is more than you could ask for. You can also quite cheaply tailor the power to what you prefer/want by adding the flywheel weight and cylinder head inserts.I love the light weight and as I get older its less tiring on the body than anything else I have ridden, I also have four Bultacos.

Cheers Greg

[biffsgasgas]

Ditto... I think this happens every late fall. People stop competing in person so the run to the webz...

--Biff

[gasgas249uk]

biffs your spot on there. It happens this time every year on TC. Spontaneous mini rioting lol.

[mr neutron]

My 2010 280 Pro has proven to be a real pile of junk.

It has needed the grips replaced, TWICE, and is always needing the fuel in the tank replenished. The chain constantly needs oiling, and the air filter seems to frequently need attention.

I always have to check the air in the tires, it seems.

The stupid thing always starts easily & runs well. Because of that, I've ran out of good excuses for not finishing better in the Intermediate class at my local trial comps. This bike is really beginning to p*** me off....... I only wish it were heavier & therefore more reliable..... I absolutely hate being able to buy parts for a bike when they need them, also.....

Shoulda bought a Scorpa 4-stroke.......

Jimmie

Edited November 16, 2014 by mr neutron

[nigel dabster]

Jimmie, lol!

[dadof2]

First DLs choice of bike. Anything I write is speculation because only DL knows why but considering he had a 3 year contract with GG and coached Raga on one there is no reason he should not continue to use a bike he is familiar with until the Vertigo is up and running.

DLs ignition failure at the Scottish. Beta ignition failure was well known. Had I been doing the Scottish on a Beta I would have done two things. 1) Had a spare ignition available and the tools to fit it. 2) Prior to the event and each evening I would have checked the ignition on an oscilloscope.

DLs ignition failure at the Scott. This was an experimental ignition system not the make fitted to customer bikes. Perhaps using an experimental system on the Scott was pushing his luck. Bearing in mind the frequency of ignition failures whatever the system / bike if I were doing the Scott I would monitor the ignition with an oscilloscope for at least several weeks before.

As said previously and well known, Beta had a problem with stators that went on and on and upset many riders. At least Beta UK were sympathetic to requests for free replacement well out of the warranty period.

Sherco and Gasgas also suffered quite a few stator failures. Sherco gave some leeway out of warranty but I have not heard of Gasgas replacing any out of warranty.

I discussed this with a multi marque dealer (and WTC level development rider) at the time I was thinking of a new bike and his view was that all ignition systems with the exception of Yamaha were now being built down to a price with a very adverse effect on quality. His actual words are unprintable.

I have dismantled Beta ignition systems, including unwinding the source coils and they seem to be well built with nothing obviously wrong.

I have also dismantled Gasgas ignition systems the termination of the fine source coil windings was such that failure was probable.

General reliability. Pretty well all marques of trials bikes have problems, some more than others but some definitely due to design and or build quality.

Take the Sherco selector spring http://www.splatshop.co.uk/spring-for-gear-shift-lever.html that breaks where the sharp kink is. This spring is made from wire only about 1mm diameter and therefore presumably quite hard to give it the necessary stiffness. This stiffness and the tight bend is why it breaks. Compare this to a Bultaco from 30+ years ago where the spring is about 3mm diameter wire and less hard, and rarely if ever broke.

The Gasgas Pro. The pro engine was significantly smaller and lighter than previous trial engines, with a unique gearbox and clutch design. Unfortunately before long the gearboxes began to fail sometimes repeatedly and very expensively, sometimes just the selector parts but sometimes, gears, shafts, bearings and even the crankcases.

Firstly the crankcases. The alloy is very thin around the gearbox bearings, thin castings flex, increasing stress on other parts.

The gears themselves are very small and narrow meaning the stress on them is much higher than in a conventional gearbox. In addition some of the gears are used twice compared to a traditional gearbox.

The gearbox shafts are quite small in diameter and the split cage needle roller bearing is less than ideal, any wear or debris can result in roller slewing and what follows from that

If anybody does not believe what I am saying just ask any independent engineer and or lay the parts out and compare them with a conventional gearbox or pre Pro GG gearbox.

The small chain links and pins in the selector which should be protected by the cross bar in the top hat shearing are not. The links frequently give way before the top hat.

GG has known about these problems for years but never done anything significant to prevent them. Relatively recently they have (so I have been told) made it easier to change the selector shaft. But making a part easier to change does not solve the fundamental problem.

These problems may not show up in top line riders bikes that are changed frequently but for private, or second owners they represent a significant risk. A risk such that quite a lot of people will not buy a Gasgas.

Gasgas should have beefed up the box and casings many years ago. Perhaps if Piebernat had still been there they would have done.

The crankcases also break underneath the rear where the frame is attached.

The Gasgas is a very competitive bike and the basic design concept is very, very good but it is let down by the detailing.

Until they sort the frame cracking problems (not all that frequent), fuel tap problems (not all that frequent) kickstart (fairly frequent) and substantially strengthen the crankcases and gearboxes I will not be buying one nor advising anyone else to.

That is also the view of several ex Pro owners.

The situation in my area not be typical of Derbyshire (near GG UK) but up here in the North.

White Brothers GG dealership no longer trading

Nigel Birkett – pretty well given up on GG

AG bikes – strongly favours Sherco, pretty well given up on GG

Bill and Mick Wilkinson. Former GG dealers retired.

Can’t remember the name of the GG dealer near Nord View but he gave up a few years ago.

MHB is current GG dealer but he hardly sells any GGs.

Not that long ago one of my friends was talking to Al the Spanner who said GGs were just not selling.

[baldilocks]

Laughable

bill & mick did trials as a side line it was a car repair garage. They could get you any bike you liked. I bought two yams off them. They retired when they felt like it , nothing to do with Gas Gas more to do with age.

White Bros, and I know Derek, sold yamaha, beta, scorpa and sherco trials. They were also a Honda road bike dealer. How have you determined that the closure of the business is related to only Gas Gas ?

is this the Nigel Birkett who is the uk importer for Ossa and Scorpa ? I wonder why he doesn't invest time in selling John Shirts bikes

Al the spanner ill ask him what he thinks of your comment on Sunday shall I ? As a sole trader selling only Gas Gas he'll be absolutely delighted.

Edited November 18, 2014 by baldilocks

[baldilocks]

2013 and 2014 GG have Hidria ignition system fitted same system as fitted by Sherco and Beta. In a thread about post 2012 reliability this may be more relevant than a rather misguided analysis of various businesses and individuals.

[johnnyboxer]

First DLs choice of bike. Anything I write is speculation because only DL knows why but considering he had a 3 year contract with GG and coached Raga on one there is no reason he should not continue to use a bike he is familiar with until the Vertigo is up and running.

DLs ignition failure at the Scottish. Beta ignition failure was well known. Had I been doing the Scottish on a Beta I would have done two things. 1) Had a spare ignition available and the tools to fit it. 2) Prior to the event and each evening I would have checked the ignition on an oscilloscope.

DLs ignition failure at the Scott. This was an experimental ignition system not the make fitted to customer bikes. Perhaps using an experimental system on the Scott was pushing his luck. Bearing in mind the frequency of ignition failures whatever the system / bike if I were doing the Scott I would monitor the ignition with an oscilloscope for at least several weeks before.

As said previously and well known, Beta had a problem with stators that went on and on and upset many riders. At least Beta UK were sympathetic to requests for free replacement well out of the warranty period.

Sherco and Gasgas also suffered quite a few stator failures. Sherco gave some leeway out of warranty but I have not heard of Gasgas replacing any out of warranty.

I discussed this with a multi marque dealer (and WTC level development rider) at the time I was thinking of a new bike and his view was that all ignition systems with the exception of Yamaha were now being built down to a price with a very adverse effect on quality. His actual words are unprintable.

I have dismantled Beta ignition systems, including unwinding the source coils and they seem to be well built with nothing obviously wrong.

I have also dismantled Gasgas ignition systems the termination of the fine source coil windings was such that failure was probable.

General reliability. Pretty well all marques of trials bikes have problems, some more than others but some definitely due to design and or build quality.

Take the Sherco selector spring http://www.splatshop.co.uk/spring-for-gear-shift-lever.html that breaks where the sharp kink is. This spring is made from wire only about 1mm diameter and therefore presumably quite hard to give it the necessary stiffness. This stiffness and the tight bend is why it breaks. Compare this to a Bultaco from 30+ years ago where the spring is about 3mm diameter wire and less hard, and rarely if ever broke.

The Gasgas Pro. The pro engine was significantly smaller and lighter than previous trial engines, with a unique gearbox and clutch design. Unfortunately before long the gearboxes began to fail sometimes repeatedly and very expensively, sometimes just the selector parts but sometimes, gears, shafts, bearings and even the crankcases.

Firstly the crankcases. The alloy is very thin around the gearbox bearings, thin castings flex, increasing stress on other parts.

The gears themselves are very small and narrow meaning the stress on them is much higher than in a conventional gearbox. In addition some of the gears are used twice compared to a traditional gearbox.

The gearbox shafts are quite small in diameter and the split cage needle roller bearing is less than ideal, any wear or debris can result in roller slewing and what follows from that

If anybody does not believe what I am saying just ask any independent engineer and or lay the parts out and compare them with a conventional gearbox or pre Pro GG gearbox.

The small chain links and pins in the selector which should be protected by the cross bar in the top hat shearing are not. The links frequently give way before the top hat.

GG has known about these problems for years but never done anything significant to prevent them. Relatively recently they have (so I have been told) made it easier to change the selector shaft. But making a part easier to change does not solve the fundamental problem.

These problems may not show up in top line riders bikes that are changed frequently but for private, or second owners they represent a significant risk. A risk such that quite a lot of people will not buy a Gasgas.

Gasgas should have beefed up the box and casings many years ago. Perhaps if Piebernat had still been there they would have done.

The crankcases also break underneath the rear where the frame is attached.

The Gasgas is a very competitive bike and the basic design concept is very, very good but it is let down by the detailing.

Until they sort the frame cracking problems (not all that frequent), fuel tap problems (not all that frequent) kickstart (fairly frequent) and substantially strengthen the crankcases and gearboxes I will not be buying one nor advising anyone else to.

That is also the view of several ex Pro owners.

The situation in my area not be typical of Derbyshire (near GG UK) but up here in the North.

White Brothers GG dealership no longer trading

Nigel Birkett – pretty well given up on GG

AG bikes – strongly favours Sherco, pretty well given up on GG

Bill and Mick Wilkinson. Former GG dealers retired.

Can’t remember the name of the GG dealer near Nord View but he gave up a few years ago.

MHB is current GG dealer but he hardly sells any GGs.

Not that long ago one of my friends was talking to Al the Spanner who said GGs were just not selling.

That's a fairly far reaching and negative statement................i'm surprised you took the time to compile it

I have no personal experience of GasGas, but I see plenty of them at events, together with Beta and Sherco - so as a straw poll, then they must ride well and hold up ok as you see some pretty old ones at Trials most weeks

As others have said, I reckon most owners seem reasonably happy with the GasGas bikes, as they keep on riding and buying them

Judging on what you see - I reckon GasGas and Beta sell most bikes bought in the UK, so sales speak for themselves

Edited November 18, 2014 by johnnyboxer

[perce]

Laughable

White Bros They were also a Honda road bike dealer.

Derek is / was always far too polite to say but if you ask Alan, this was the root of all evil.