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Hepl! Non-Starter


happyhenry
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Or even Help! Non Starter...

Any hints or tips on how to start my M85 Alpina gratefully received.

I have rebuilt this bike over a period of time including new big end, conrod crank balance, bearings, crank seals, rebore, piston, Inmotion electronic ignition etc etc. Crankcases carefully reassembled to avoid leaks.

The carb has been rebuilt with new jets, needle and gaskets. 50:1 mixture.

Fat spark when pumped over by hand with the plug out and loads of compression with it in. New NGK BP5ES plug.

All looks good but no signs of life at all: Not a single cough, fart or sniff.

I've even taken the l/h footrest off to get a longer swing with the kickstart.

Just about at the end of my sweaty tether.

Any ideas?

Edited by happyhenry
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Henry, You have all but eliminated every thing.

It has fire outside but maybe not any when under compression.

I am not familiar with electronic ignition & the timing of same.

A 2 stroke only needs fuel, comp, fire at the proper time.

Tell us if it getting the plug wet, if so, new plug and throttle wide

open, if nothing, then we will look further. PS don't break kicker spring.

Larry

Edited by lbhbul
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Are you sure the clutch doen't slip a tiny bit? Mine did and it wouldn't start also (mine also has electronic ignition).

I put some shims in the spring cups and hey presto, it starts!

Edited by guys
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Thanks for the quick responses Ibhbul and guys. However, after an afternoon of frustration I've found the answer!

All I needed to do was to ask the question on this forum, then to go and sit down in the garage facing the bike with a mug of Yorkshire Gold tea and two milk chocolate Hobnobs. After I had composed myself, I give the carb a good tickle and kicked it over on half throttle.

It kicked back and I knew I had it on the run. Next kick it started! And has done first or second kick since.

I have no idea what the issue was previously - perhaps oil settled out in the carb, who knows? Being the owner of a couple of older two-strokes I know they can be fickle at first, but generally behave if run regularly. This one probably hasn't been started for 20 years; the tank didn't even smell of petrol when I bought it. I must say the l/h kickstart doesn't help, but I'm getting used to it.

Just got to MoT it and get a registration number now!

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For some reason (I suspect fuel) my bikes seem to need richening on the pilot jet. They seem to need a good flood to start, so on a carb with no tickler, lean the bike over for a few seconds and starts fine. Not just bultacos, my bantam and montesa the same...

Strange, I think it's modern fuel.

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09.11.14%20M85%201.jpg?dl=009.11.14%20M85%202.jpg?dl=0

I'm sure we'd all love to see some pictures.........
(My model 85 hasn't run in 25+ years)

Here are a couple of photos - hopefully...

The middle silencer is a Sammy Miller product, I have the original but need to learn to weld before cutting it open to repack it. I found that the reproduction ones for sale don't have the correct indent in the back for the Model 85 frame member.

post-17199-0-07109300-1415551999_thumb.jpg

post-17199-0-98104700-1415552007_thumb.jpg

Edited by happyhenry
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Happyhenry -

Well, I think I'd be happy too if my Alpina looked anywhere near as nice........

I assume from the style of tank and mudguards fitted, this is a US import ?

Any "E" problems with the tank ?

My UK-sourced M85 has a Homerlite alloy tank/seat unit as per the '74/'75 Sherpa T offering, although I must say I prefer the looks of yours.

Now, if only I could get my hands on one.........

My guards have been replaced long ago by plastic items - not pretty, but the usual practical choice.

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I assume from the style of tank and mudguards fitted, this is a US import ?

Any "E" problems with the tank ?

My UK-sourced M85 has a Homerlite alloy tank/seat unit as per the '74/'75 Sherpa T offering, although I must say I prefer the looks of yours.

Well, you asked...

It's a 1972 bike with matching numbers. Apparently it came into the UK in a container-load of knackered dirt bikes from the US. I bought it "part restored" from a contact of a friend of a friend, but when I got into it I realised it had more issues than a contestant on The Apprentice.

A lot of polishing had gone on, quite a few bits such as brake linings had been sourced but worrying things such as the head nuts were finger tight. It was evident that the crank was well out of balance as the flywheel motions were elliptical, nothing inside the engine cases had been touched and the frame had been badly over painted in Hammerite - though I knew that. And the new shocks were fitted upside down.

As a result I took the decision to strip it right down and put it back together properly. I'm not one for over restoration, with bikes looking ten times better than when they came out of the factory, but this one does now look presentable with some patina still showing.

The list is a long and frightening one, but includes: new big-end kit with the crank put back straight; re-bore and piston; new main bearings; crank seals (obviously) and careful re-assembly including In Motion electronic ignition. (I first fitted an Electrex World system with which there were absolutely no signs of life. Internet research and a few phone calls revealed that this isn't an uncommon occurrence. Lesson: "what at first appears to be a bargain often isn't.")

I had the frame powder-coated and put the whole bike carefully back together. Had to have a new front wheel spindle machined as you can't get the old pattern any more. Wiring is simple and the direct lights work - after a fashion.

The tank didn't even smell of vaguely petrol and had no soft spots, so I cleaned it and lined it myself with a two-pack resin system from Tank Care Products. It's had half a tankful in it for over six months and appears fine, though I'll now drain it when not in use. I've put stick-on silver heat insulating panels on the underside as an added precaution. Had to do a few small fibreglass repairs to the seat area before spraying and lacquering it myself with Apico paint. Not perfect but good enough for me.

From the limited (5 minutes) I've had it running I am happy except that the gear selection is pretty stiff, but I hope that's because the clutch is dragging - hopefully through lack of use. The basket is an old version with cups and pins, rather than threaded adjusters, holding the springs in. Absolute b**stards to get in and means there is no easy adjustment other then the actuating rod.

I have a dating letter from Bultaco UK and now I just need to MoT it to apply for an age-related plate! What could possibly go wrong?

Edited by happyhenry
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P.S. The seat-tank units do come up occasionally - mainly in US eBay.

Paul Cowley at Shedworks (www.shedworks.net) makes a very nice looking slimline tank-seat unit (same style but the slimline Sherpa T type from the same era) in E-proof fibreglass and will do one in red or blue.

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