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Wtc Vs Cma - Why Not Have Both?


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The old blood can't let the crap from the past go.


Michael, keep up the great work! 


Take note from the massive mistakes from the past of both orgs, take note of the other motorcycle disciplines that have prospered in their own new system. Many of them are part of the MCC group. 


I'm looking forward to your influence and leadership in the trials community for years to come, you have my vote for the new WTC President. Take it to the next level. Look the future.


My message to the WTC boss, time to hand over your hard work to new blood that will take it to the next level. 







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What a great thought Borus, yes time for new blood in the WTC.  


As with all well ran campaigns each candidate has a platform that they put forth.  


Boris what is it about Michaels platform that you like and why you have already gave him your vote?


Being an astute business man and a Sherco importer you must have liked what Micheal had to say and committing your vote to him in a public forum a bold statement.   Please enlighten us we need to know what you know.........  


What does Michael propose to change?


What are Michaels plans to promote the sport national and globally.


We all agree the sport is too small in Canada to have divided clubs and politics and must change moving forward.  


What skills sets has Michael demonstrated to date in bridging these gaps. 


What is it about Michaels vast past trials experience and contacts in the trials world local, national, global that you like?


Surely a person does not vote a person in to power based solely upon JUST liking a candidate passion and the fact that he bought a bike from you, etc  there must be some pedigree, provenance in a candidate ..........



Maybe Michael can answer this for Bob (Borus)?


While we wait for Bobs reply.......     :popcorn:


Lets give Michael a fair open job interview here. 


Michael please tell us why your background makes you a suitable candidate for this job?


  • How long have you been riding trials
  • What experience do you have on national level
  • What experience do you have on a global level
  • What prior relationship do you have within organizations such the FIM, CMA, AMA.
  • Have you demonstrated change management, bridging political gaps before, if so where
  • Do you have credibility in the trials community built over years of involvement in the sport


Michael with respect to your platform the stage is yours, please tell us:


  • What you would change
  • How you would change it
  • How would you grow the sports local, national, globaly
  • Give us a 3, 5, 10 year plan?
  • What connections would you make with the FIM, AMA, CMA
  • What would be your campaign slogan
  • Do you see your lack of trials provenance, pedigree as an assist or hinderance  


There must be an overall direction that the WTC and the WEC mother ship wants to head.


I would like to assume that no candidate would be accepted unless that respective candidate vision, mission, agenda aligns with the master plan.  


  • Who has the "master plan'
  • Is it a secret
  • Can it be shared 


The stage is yours............    :popcorn:

Edited by billyt
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What I know is you will not have a long line of applicants for the top job of either org, if any.


But new blood with a new vision is needed and appreciated.


The current incumbents carry a heavy negative trials political past. 


For myself, I have a lot of experience with introducing new sports to both Canada and the USA from Europe, development and leading of National organizations, international relationships both sporting and business. I really don't think I need to justify myself to you on the people I support.


Finally, Billyt, I don't find your questioning productive, you appear to be trying to find fault and I simply receive this is yet another negative. You're simply driving me farther away for sure. As for your questioning of Michael, how absurd, he's applying for nothing as I know it, and if he does then maybe he will present his position at that time. But its total up to Michael what he does. 


Michael, please stay positive as I know you will, don't let these guys get you down!!! 


Michael for "President" !!! - when the time comes...



Edited by borus
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As past president of a couple of non-profit organizations I have a great deal of pride in what I have accomplished - especially with  Biathlon, and of course the NSORRA, I am currently the paddling chair for a local Canoe and Kayak club and we are in the middle of our Canadian championship here on our lake with 1600 athletes competing.


I have no plans to run for president of the WTC or the TAC I plan on keeping my efforts local and do what I can to grow the sport here in NS. Although I do appreciate Bob as a supporter and the fact that Sherco sponsors me, I feel I have much more the accomplish here before going national :).




Edited by michael_t
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Boy was I wrong........  You are both politicians.  You avoid and skip around direct questions.   :wall:


Yes I posted hard questions.  I would ask the questions to anybody that wants my vote (CMA) included, as we all should.


Any officer of the CMA, WTC, etc should have no romantic illusions about the role.  It is  job period and any candidate should have a past pedigree and vision as they report into a boss of said organization.  


So Bob, you find my questions absurd and looking to point out the faults.


The growth of trials in Canada is my objective even from a far.  The direction, objectives of any person/organization that takes on this task must have many different skill sets, a history of riding trials, knows the people, has national and international experience, is  a bridge builder, has a vision and shares that vision.


I doubt you and Michael could argue with these basic fundamentals.



Bob you wrote  "For myself, I have a lot of experience with introducing new sports to both Canada and the USA from Europe, development and leading of National organizations, international relationships both sporting and business. I really don't think I need to justify myself to you on the people I support."



​I was not asking for justification of your past but rather why you committed on public forum that you support Michael for president, even though Michael states he is not running for a WTC officer post.   I wanted to know what it was about his thoughts on growing the Canadian trials scene/ platform you liked and how it aligns with your vision for trials in Canada, why is that such a hard question.      


I am curious what new sports  (plural) did you introduce to Canada.  


You would not vote in a Canadian election without first knowing what the candidate stood for would you? 




Michael.  Once again your honesty is appreciated.  


You stated that you do not want to run for office but rather support trials at the grass root level.


I honestly believe you could do a good job of that. 


Being a sponsored rider is a hard job.   Bob must have saw something he wanted to sponsor?  



I hoped I would get to hear the WTC vision or the WEC mother ship vision of how they could  grow trials on the local, national, international level.


Either of you may not have created the current WTC policies or vision for the future however you obviously support it. 


Instead I see two highly passionate supporters of the WTC skipping and dancing around succinct questions of vision, and action plans, the same set of question I would pose to the CMA.


My conclusion, you can't or won't answer my questions,  can I speak to the boss? I know they are watching.............     :wall:          


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Billy you really shouldn't jump to such quick conclusions just because nobody answers your fairly lengthy post in under a day doesn't mean it won't get answered. I actually think I have been doing a pretty good job of answering your questions honestly and timely despite being in the middle of organizing a trials demo in Digby and our paddling team here in Dartmouth. It is 12:25 AM and I am going to bed and I am hoping to take a few days off...


Honestly I thought you where asking those questions based on the thinking I was running for Pres - so I simply stated I was not - not sure how that makes me a politician in your eyes.


I do see why officials of both the CMA and the WTC refuse to even visit the forums but personally I think it is healthy to discuss the issues with the sport and feel it will eventually lead to seeing a middle ground.


Of interest to some would be the unfortunate fact that the first person to take a demo ride today on the trials bike I loaned  managed to have a bad accident and had to be taken off to the hospital. I got the call early in the day... he was later checked out and released but it was 6 hours of my life that I was really happy I had put the appropriate insurance and waivers in place before the event.  




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Great work out there in NS putting on a trial.   Sorry to hear about the accident.


"I think it is healthy to discuss the issues with the sport and feel it will eventually lead to seeing a middle ground."


100% agree with you.  To many people are afraid of the tough questions.     


I PM you a few days ago to try an set up a call.  You can ask me any questions you find related to finding a common ground.


I am currently a member of the AMA as I live currently in AZ. When I go back to AB I try to ride a trial and buy a CMA membership.


I normally retain a CMA card I did not make it back this year, so no I do not have current CMA card. A new CMA card for 2017 will be a must.


( PS: I lived in Amherst when I first landed in NS).  Awesome little place.


Take your time, to answer and best wishes to your injured rider.







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BillyT - I founded and was the president the Canadian Ring Association, a French very high level protection dog sport. I intoduced in North America,  Mondio Ring. Another very high level protection dog sport. I conducted the first seminar in the USA in Colorado. Today the United States Mondio Ring Association is alive and well and the Canadian Ring Association is alive and well. I knew when it was time to hand over the reigns to new blood. I was also one of the first Mondio Ring and French judges in North America and I was a International Select decoy. I have also provided many  protection dog seminars including a seminar in Brazil on an Army base in the worst area of Sao Paulo.


I'm not a supporter of either the WTC or CMA. The CMA rhetoric and performance is making my eventual decision easier and easier. However i do sponsor and support riders who attend events sanctioned by both orgs. This weekend we have a rider at the WTC West Nationals. 


My support for our next "Trials Association" sanctioning body leader will be for completely new blood that embraces the qualities I think are required. 


Michael for President, or someone with Michael's qualities!!!



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Borus.  I checked out the Canadian Ring Association.  Fascinating, are these also RCMP service dogs getting trained?


When you say you are not a supporter of the CMA or WTC, CMM is that due to the people or what the associations stand for?


Please help me understand what your ideal Canadian Trials association would look like?


Take the people out of it and focus on the ethics, content, mission and values of a Trials association that represents Canada.  


These qualities you mention, what are they?








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Kudos for the honest and civil discussion. Often a charter says one thing and the organization does another. Not from bad intent but from lack of money or just no one to carry the flag anymore. Getting the right people into the critical positions is key. Bringing in new people to learn from the old dogs is key. The other important piece is us old guys also have to learn to let go. Just like riding memory (the older I get the better I was) you have to let the new leaders sort it out.

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Billyt - I think I've made numerous points in this thread that capture what I think including http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/57211-wtc-vs-cma-why-not-have-both/?p=432368


I've gone way over my limit here in posts but Michael and the likes of Michael need support, they have it from me for sure. 


I'm just lucky that if I choose to compete again I have a great group to join, they are not CMA or WTC. But if they choose in the future to join either of these orgs it will be because they have improved in many ways. Something I don't see happening with the existing directors. There's a lot of negative energy in these groups at the political level. Thank goodness they manage to still get trials competitions done but there's no growth. 


We need new blood, easier said than done.   


And now I'm done here, I need to call our sponsored EM rider who just won the Advanced class at the WTC West National. Back to the fun>>>

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The WTC do not normally comment on abstract forums - However, as a director of  the WTC  I should mention that we have no President - only volunteers who work to promote trials .  - Everybody works to help the family aspect of trials  at the lowest cost possible  - Nobody gets paid..  and BTW we are NOT changing our name.

I will not respond to any hate replies on this forum.

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