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trialguy

Ty175 Relocated Condenser Wiring

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Due to a bonk on the head or unresolved childhood  issues with my Mom ;) I've become inspired to screw with my 78 ty175 in all kinds of ways... There are not very many area's that are not getting messed with and we'll have to see how the end result works (or doesn't...) For now though I'd love some clarification on rewiring/relocating my new condenser under the tank or out of the Mag cover. For as long as I've had the bike it has run ok with 3 wires soldered to the top of the condenser. 1 to points, 1 to the lower/larger of the dual coils at the front side of the mag and lastly of course the black wire to the HT coil.  With this move of the condenser to its new location do I simply join the wire from the mag to the wire from the points, then join a new long single wire to those two and run it all the way up to the condenser and then finally to the coil?  It seems to me that it's that simple but on the other hand it seems goofy. Not to mention that it also seems weird to me that once you toss the two yellow light/horn wires that the only connection between the lower end and the top end is one measly black wire. Any guidance on this seemingly simple change will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks  

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Due to a bonk on the head or unresolved childhood  issues with my Mom ;) I've become inspired to screw with my 78 ty175 in all kinds of ways... There are not very many area's that are not getting messed with and we'll have to see how the end result works (or doesn't...) For now though I'd love some clarification on rewiring/relocating my new condenser under the tank or out of the Mag cover. For as long as I've had the bike it has run ok with 3 wires soldered to the top of the condenser. 1 to points, 1 to the lower/larger of the dual coils at the front side of the mag and lastly of course the black wire to the HT coil.  With this move of the condenser to its new location do I simply join the wire from the mag to the wire from the points, then join a new long single wire to those two and run it all the way up to the condenser and then finally to the coil? YES  It seems to me that it's that simple but on the other hand it seems goofy. YES it is that simple. Not to mention that it also seems weird to me that once you toss the two yellow light/horn wires that the only connection between the lower end and the top end is one measly black wire. Any guidance on this seemingly simple change will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks

 

If the measly black wire has gone hard with age it would be a good time to fit a new piece of wire. The rest of the low voltage part of the ignition circuit is via the frame and motor casings. That is why you only need one wire.

You should also have a wire joining the measly black wire and the kill switch (if you have a kill switch)

 

 

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Yes, the rewiring you described is just that simple.  However, I question your desire to move the condenser (aka capacitor).  I think most people move them for easier access in case of failure.  Let’s think about why we have a condenser connected to the ignition points and why they fail.

 

Electricity moves through the wiring at the speed of light.  When the ignition points open, the electricity wants to keep moving (inertia) so it tries to jump the points gap (similar to a spark plug but much lower voltage).    This causes burning of the points.  Burned points make for a weak spark at the plug.

 

The condenser is attached to the points to act as an electric “shock absorber” to give the electricity a place to go rather than to try to jump the point contacts.  The closer the condenser is to the points, the faster it can absorb that electrical shock.  This is why most bikes and cars have the condenser mounted in (or on) the distributor or next to the points.  Moving the condenser farther from the points will reduce the ability for the condenser to absorb that electric shock – thereby burning the points sooner.

 

For best operation, the points and condenser should be “matched” to absorb the electrical shock perfectly.  If they are close, the points will last a long time.   If unmatched, the points will transfer material form one contact point to the other.  You have probably seen points with one contact eroded and the other built up to match its shape.   Result: poor spark at the spark plug.   “Matching” the condenser and points correctly requires specialized equipment and knowledge.  As a result, people usually just replace both when one fails.  The engineers have defined the proper capacitance (measured in micro farads) and assigned part numbers accordingly. 

 

Condensers normally fail by drying out.  This happens with time, with repeated heating and cooling and sudden excessive heat.  This failure is not usually visible at the condenser unless it is an extreme failure.  You see the effect as burning of the contact points, poor spark, or failure to start.  By then you will need to replace both the points and condenser anyway.

 

So why do you feel you want to move the condenser?

 

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Thank you to both parties for the responses and now I'm conflicted... I wanted to move it because I thought getting it away from the temperature of the engine would be doing it (and the points that rely on it) a favour. Your point is well taken so maybe I'll hold off on this particular mod. Happy with my footpeg brackets I built today though! moved the (Hebo) pegs down about 40mm and back about 30mm. Also made a new seat cover in black vinyl, heat welded the two panels together and it looks as close to perfect as I need.

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By all means move the condenser under the tank. When and not if it fails it' s easy to change out. Mount two that way when it fails in the middle of the woods gets youbackto the pits. Moved mine 3 years ago and doing so saved me a long push back twice now.

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2 condensor failures in 3 years after you moved them up under the tank? 

 

Did you have similar failures in the 3 years before you moved it? 

 

What is the relative temperature inside the timing cover and under the tank?  How close is the conderser to the exhaust?

By all means move the condenser under the tank. When and not if it fails it' s easy to change out. Mount two that way when it fails in the middle of the woods gets youbackto the pits. Moved mine 3 years ago and doing so saved me a long push back twice now.

 

 

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Yes too much fuzz about the condenser I personal ( but I'am 50% German too ) would leave the condenser where it belongs to the plate of the ignition.

I had problems with them when the ignition plate and their components were heavy corroded or they were over 20 years old changed them once and that was it no other problems occurred. Keep in mind that if you move the mounting point of the condenser the electrical wiring has to suit mostly 6V which means much thicker wires then with 12V. I would use at least 1,5 mm2 as diameter.

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I had a Monty 349 that regularly overheated the condenser, moved it up under the tank on the advice of a leading twinshock parts supplier (who sell condensers!).

End of problem.

 

I have since done the same mod on a Triumph 3TA (for simplicity, distributors don't get hot) and also my TY175. 

 

None have failed and I don't have issues with the points burning/pitting.

 

I also got rid of the unused coils on the mag on TY. 

 

Cheers Bill 

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2 condensor failures in 3 years after you moved them up under the tank?

Did you have similar failures in the 3 years before you moved it?

What is the relative temperature inside the timing cover and under the tank? How close is the conderser to the exhaust?

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I was using condenser that I had in stock from 1974. That is why I had two go tits ups. I now use new ones and no more failures.

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