old trials fanatic Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Not taking sides in this one but lets assume ronwright that your name was Rupert Ratio for example and you had written a book collating loads of useful information about building and running BSA unit singles. How would you feel if people instead of buying your book gave away the information you had spent all that time and effort collating and then writing up and publishing for free on a website ? Just a POV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetom Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Fair point OTF, if it's Deryks mod, it's up to him to use it as he pleases . If though, like some of the Rupert Ratio stuff, it's lots of common knowledge collated together, at what point does the mod or information become the property of the collator ? There's loads of C15 info on here that is in Ratio's book, but is also known by lots of others I'm sure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki250 Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Just go on google and type "fs1e coil on Villiers" there's all the info you need for free its quite a simple job once you have the info, and it works well too Edited July 18, 2016 by suzuki250 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Hi Ron, The modification that was first used to win the Scott trial on a Villiers twostroke by Arthur Shutt was relatively simple and simply involved adding the Villiers lighting coil (already in the flywheel) to the ignition circuit. Email me at Offroadrevue@gmail.com and I will give you instructions on how to do it. I did it on all the Villiers models that I rode over the years (Dot, Greeves, Cotton and James) and the modification was standard fit on all the works Francis-Barnett bikes. If there is sufficient demand I will publish details in our digital magazine, ORRe. Surely it was the above post that Ron took offence at. Every post in the Pre 65 section is immediately steered off topic by ads for an e magazine or someone criticising every bike that is not original with full history as in the recent Drayton Bantam question. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki250 Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Surely it was the above post that Ron took offence at. Every post in the Pre 65 section is immediately steered off topic by ads for an e magazine or someone criticising every bike that is not original with full history as in the recent Drayton Bantam question. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetom Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Common sense prevails ⬆️? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Hi Ron, The modification that was first used to win the Scott trial on a Villiers twostroke by Arthur Shutt was relatively simple and simply involved adding the Villiers lighting coil (already in the flywheel) to the ignition circuit. Email me at Offroadrevue@gmail.com and I will give you instructions on how to do it. I did it on all the Villiers models that I rode over the years (Dot, Greeves, Cotton and James) and the modification was standard fit on all the works Francis-Barnett bikes. If there is sufficient demand I will publish details in our digital magazine, ORRe. Hi suzuki250, This was my initial reply to ron, which I have highlighted simply to indicate that my chosen reply would be subject to how many other people would be interested - because if you reread the first posting asking for help ron had already bought the external coil, so was aware of the inaccurate misinformation on google.............. For your information the digital magazine is NOT a commercial venture! It was created exclusively as an add-on feature of this forum to enable members whose main interests are classic sport, rather than modern sport like the 'wtc', could have access to additional pages of information that would obviously be boring to the bulk of the members. The fee at £12, which currently gives access to over 3500 pages of information and photographs (many never published before) simply does not compare with the usual cost of the digital versions of commercial magazines. It is not available anywhere else, it is an exclusive 'tc' feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki250 Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Hi suzuki250, This was my initial reply to ron, which I have highlighted simply to indicate that my chosen reply would be subject to how many other people would be interested - because if you reread the first posting asking for help ron had already bought the external coil, so was aware of the inaccurate misinformation on google.............. For your information the digital magazine is NOT a commercial venture! It was created exclusively as an add-on feature of this forum to enable members whose main interests are classic sport, rather than modern sport like the 'wtc', could have access to additional pages of information that would obviously be boring to the bulk of the members. The fee at £12, which currently gives access to over 3500 pages of information and photographs (many never published before) simply does not compare with the usual cost of the digital versions of commercial magazines. It is not available anywhere else, it is an exclusive 'tc' feature. All I put was agreed, and stated were the info could be found for free, and stated the mod works well! So why pick on me? Edited July 19, 2016 by suzuki250 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetom Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Couldn't you have just emailed him the info? Cut and paste is only a couple of clicks for chrissakes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Hi davetom, Within the first hour I had the first seven requests, by next morning it was close to thirty........so I did exactly as I have always done, I did what I said I was going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Couldn't you have just emailed him the info? Cut and paste is only a couple of clicks for chrissakes Or place the information you have here on tc so that Ron and the others could get their bike working and ride in trials. By posting you would then as you quote 'so was aware of the inaccurate misinformation on google..............' save other riders wasting their time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronwright Posted July 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 I am pleased to be able to report that apart from Deryk having an inflated opinion of his worth to the pre 65 trials community that many people offered me free advice and assistance without any strings on this issue and without wanting any recompense. Amongst those that helped were Paul Powell of Cotton Villiers; Norman Blakemore of the shock absorder supplier; a chap called Malcolm from the Francis Barnett forum. The modification is very simple once it is explained in detail and does not need the use of the lighting coils which probably by now are well past their best. If anyone wants help on this issue they can contact me on my email; ron-wright@blueyonder.co.uk. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitehillbilly Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) I have a 1960 Greeves, with a 32A motor. I live in Australia, and 20 odd years ago, sent my coil to hi-output coils, In Victoria. They rewound it, and has been faultless. Cost was about 40 quid, and it runs the standard setup, but has the HT lead soldered to the coil. I had a 1956 James trials, 6E motor,which ran an external coil, much like you are doing. I picked up a roadster rolling chassis, then later a 6E motor. I stripped the first lot of wire from the coil ( secondary windings ? ) then ran a wire from the original coil winding left on it, to the external coil, which also had a external condenser fitted to it. It has changed hands a couple of time, and a few changes made, but is still being used at Trials in Queensland Au, the last picture below A mate with a 150 Villiers, took the wires off the coil, counting the turns from the primary and secondary windings. Took two samples to the local electric motor rebuilders, to get the sizing, and length, when wound the wire back on, finishing with a shellac coating. 20 years later still going strong. whitehillbilly Edited August 6, 2016 by whitehillbilly 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floydbassman Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 My Greeves TFS with 32a engine had issues with the existing internal ignition coil breaking down when hot, being 50 years old and insulation breaking down. I got an external coil and condenser from Villiers services. The old coil, I stripped the thin ht windings off and fed the external coil from the remaining lt winding of the original. As my bike is fitted with lighting coils, I wired the lighting coil opposite the ignition coil (9 o clock position) in parallel with the ignition and mounted the condenser on the external coil bracket. A good earth back to the engine finished the job. I did a 100 mile long distance trial yesterday and the bike started ok hot and cold, with no sign of weak spark stalling at low revs.I did experiment initially running the bike with the lighting coil only, then the ignition lt only, to compare the meerkat between them. they both performed the same but there is a definite improvement using both in parallel, in the slow running of the engine.This was the cheapest option for me. Mounting the condenser is a good improvement, being away from the engine heat. For those who prefer to keep the bits inside the mag casing for originality looks, possibly using a condenser from a japanese bike from the 70s era may be an alternative, as they seemed very reliable back in the day, together with their contact breakers.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 The 'original' improvement used by Arthur Shutt to be the first man on a Villiers powered machine to win the Scott was to lift the grounded end of the flywheel mounted ignition coil and connect it to the 8 volts output from the lighting coils, using the lighting coil and ignition coil primary in series. That was the way all the works trials Francis-Barnetts were wired subsequently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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