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One For The Americans

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9 hours ago, pmk said:

So, if I understand correctly, and correct me if wrong, in your post you mention diesels and seem to be leaning towards that as the way to a greener environment?

Understand the remarks towards big engines.

Any chance you have reliable source data to graph US auto emissions or total emissions including industry for say the last 60 years.  It would be interesting to see unbiased data.  I am curious if the graph flattens with more modern cars and what should be an expected useful life.

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Unfortunately whatever data is published someone, somewhere will pull it to pieces as "wrong".  I am sure the data sets you want exist but whether they are worth looking at is debatable as one needs to see the raw data and understand how it is collated.  So "unbiased" as such is a misnomer.  CO2 output is more or less defined by fuel consumption so modern vehicles produce less as mpg improves.  You would need to then look at CO2 in manufacture and plot against vehicle life.  Again I would suggest an improving picture.  Against that - going the other way - the "fashion" for big stupid SUV and 4X4 trucks to replace normal cars.  So individually cars get better but overall CO2 increases.

As to diesel it is lower CO2 per mile than petrol but has issues with NOx pollution.  Again technology can combat that and the latest generation engines have very low NOx.  Sadly we all know that VAG fitted cheating software to their vehicles to circumvent the regulations.  Talk about a sloping playing field.  Now diesel is vilified as some sort of earth destroying fuel when it is not.

Biodiesel can be made from all sorts of plant oils and will run in modern diesel engines.  That is much better than building electric vehicles to run on coal generated electric.  So I am more against electric than for diesel if that makes sense?  Electric has a role to play - we have an electric fork truck and it is a very sensible tool for us where it is just used for a few minutes at a time.  An ICE engine would be constantly cold and under high wear as a result of cold lubricants.  I replaced the batterys (lead-acid) a couple of years back at about $4000.  How that compares to wearing out an ICE gas model is debatable I guess.

However you look at it we need globally to stop pouring CO2 into the environment.  Building millions of electric cars is not the way to do it.  Building wind, solar, tidal and other renewable power plants is the first step.  The prioritisation of personal transport is wrong and is driven by air pollution (which electric does not cure).  That is why I like to point out the flaws in many governments' near obsession with replacing ICE engines.  The UK government is very keen on it even though they are an extremely right wing government with no interest in the environment.  So there is another agenda at work in my opinion.

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I agree Chris, we need a good common sense approach to the problem based on science only. The problem here is that we have a president who tries to debunk all science for many greedy reasons and because of just plain stupidity and then the far left approach with no common sense. It really does seem like a no win situation.

I agree pmk on usually voting on who I think is the best qualified at the time. I never thought Trump was and REALLY think it now but thats my opinion. I voted for Bush the first time because I was so ticked off at what Clinton let the radical environmentalist get away with.

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26 minutes ago, scot taco said:

I agree Chris, we need a good common sense approach to the problem based on science only. The problem here is that we have a president who tries to debunk all science for many greedy reasons and because of just plain stupidity ..

Yes.  Our PM is the same anti-science nut job.  As are Morrison in Australia, Modi, Bolsonaro, Putin and so on.  It's almost like the oil industry are pulling a fast one  😎

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On 9/4/2020 at 11:08 AM, scot taco said:

I agree Chris, we need a good common sense approach to the problem based on science only. The problem here is that we have a president who tries to debunk all science for many greedy reasons and because of just plain stupidity and then the far left approach with no common sense. It really does seem like a no win situation.

I agree pmk on usually voting on who I think is the best qualified at the time. I never thought Trump was and REALLY think it now but thats my opinion. I voted for Bush the first time because I was so ticked off at what Clinton let the radical environmentalist get away with.

I hear what you say about what you thought and now really think regarding Trump.  Again, while not perfect, I do fear Biden is simply a pawn and will be disposed of quickly.  Then what?  Not so sure Harris, from California and her ideas will be good for the USA overall. There is too many known experiences of what Democratic leadership has currently brought.  That may be completely acceptable to the persons living there, but will be not even close to acceptable elsewhere.

Balancing industry vs environmental issues can be difficult.  Should the BLM close all National, state and local wilderness areas to everyone?  Then again, they should not be sold or molested away from the citizens.  Break that down another level, should only non motorized vehicles or no vehicles be allowed?  If no vehicles, how do equestrians and hikers get to areas well within a natural area?

Regardless of who they are or party affiliation, I am so much in favor of getting the political mess cleaned up.  Yes, I believe many need time in prison, serious real prison, and pay back monies taken.

If Biden has done essentially nothing in almost 5 decades, beyond unlikely he will do anything now.

As for Trump, even folks that hate him and will not vote for him, boast about how much their investments have made, or how they now have a good job and more.  Add to this what he seems to have done for our Veterans that deserve so much, and how he is attempting to make life better for the elderly on Social Security, then add to this the goals reached by his Daughter for woman, so many things add up, and none of it directly goes to me.

Trump is proving to retain basics of statements our country was founded upon vs changing things that certainly are not broken.

It just becomes very difficult to find anything to believe in that Democratic politicians could deliver.

 

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On 9/4/2020 at 11:27 AM, ChrisCH said:

Yes.  Our PM is the same anti-science nut job.  As are Morrison in Australia, Modi, Bolsonaro, Putin and so on.  It's almost like the oil industry are pulling a fast one  😎

Yes maybe, but, with no current better alternative each of us that burns any amount of gasoline, diesel or electricity is equally at fault.

I have thought about your suggestions, but sorry, the words tend to ring hollow unless a true viable solution can be had.

Case in point, you prefer bio fuel diesel, fair enough.  Why not go with my crazy absurd suggestion to go all nuclear, with electric cars, on a better recyclable tire.  Then, take the old batteries, recycle what you can, and with the expired nuclear waste, send it in a rocket to the sun.

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16 hours ago, pmk said:

Yes maybe, but, with no current better alternative each of us that burns any amount of gasoline, diesel or electricity is equally at fault.

I have thought about your suggestions, but sorry, the words tend to ring hollow unless a true viable solution can be had.

Case in point, you prefer bio fuel diesel, fair enough.  Why not go with my crazy absurd suggestion to go all nuclear, with electric cars, on a better recyclable tire.  Then, take the old batteries, recycle what you can, and with the expired nuclear waste, send it in a rocket to the sun.

I think we all need to get away from the "blame game" - it is counterproductive and designed to ensure no one does anything.  We are on a motorbike forum and I have just put the bikes in my van to go for a ride.

The problem with nuclear power (even with your good solution to the waste issue) is it cannot supply enough power for the world.  The rocket to get rid of the waste cannot run on electric and cannot be reused.  Nuclear is just as problematic and "bad" as fossil fuel.  That said the existing plant should be used rather than decommissioned - we have the technology to deal with the problem thus far.

Biofuel can replace current fossil fuel to a large extent.  This capitalises on the huge "installed base" of ICE powerplants.  Not just cars or trials bikes, but trucks, ships, generators and so on.  it is not a panacea but an effective measure that can be used now to start the long difficult journey to a sustainable future.  I have no issue with electric cars, if you want one buy one, but they are not "green".  Nor are they the "answer" to anything.  My drive to work and back every day lends itself to an electric vehicle, but our delivery van is a better choice as I have it anyway and so do not need to buy another vehicle with all the CO2 making it would require.  The small amount of diesel burned is much much less than the CO2 of buying and running a small electric car just to go to work and back.

I am not putting this forward as a "solution" simply an improvement and as a negative in the  debate about electric powered vehicles which seem to provoke such a hate reaction in some people - enough to make them dismiss the whole discussion, which is counterproductive.

The solutions to fossil CO2 are well known and well understood and available today the world over.  The resistance to change is driven by the oil lobby which is determined to destroy the ability of the planet to sustain human life in any sensible number.  The first big step is stopping the halfwitted lies told by the politicians; Trump, Putin, Johnson, Morrison and so on.  They are the real problem and are corrupt to the core in taking money from the fossil fuel industry.  Even Obama took oil money in his campaign - it is not just a simple left-right issue, it goes much much deeper than that.

Anyway I am looking forward to burning no more than a couple of litres of two stroke this afternoon.  I hope you will forgive me my extravagance.

 

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Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn!

All I can say is that my other half has picked up a new trail bike that's Euro 4 compliant, can get well over 100mpg (UK gallons), and it's really nice to follow off road because I don't get gassed, unlike any of our 2 strokes ... the plan is to get another one for me later this year because we live on a nature reserve and we want to avoid gassing the squirrels.

The main emissions savings in electric vehicles comes from two factors - that the batteries are recyclable, and that we're on the tipping point where most electricity comes from renewables.  It's no silver bullet, but moving to lower emissions where possible seems like a good idea to me, and the ever tightening EU regulations are helping push the world in the right direction :)

 

As for my last comment, I'd mention that a few people have ridden across the US on bikes that can cruise at about 50 - 55 mph, without problems (eg. Lois Price on a Serow, Ed March on a C90, that Japanese guy who went around the world on an XT250, etc).

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1 hour ago, ChrisCH said:

I think we all need to get away from the "blame game" - it is counterproductive and designed to ensure no one does anything.  We are on a motorbike forum and I have just put the bikes in my van to go for a ride.

The problem with nuclear power (even with your good solution to the waste issue) is it cannot supply enough power for the world.  The rocket to get rid of the waste cannot run on electric and cannot be reused.  Nuclear is just as problematic and "bad" as fossil fuel.  That said the existing plant should be used rather than decommissioned - we have the technology to deal with the problem thus far.

Biofuel can replace current fossil fuel to a large extent.  This capitalises on the huge "installed base" of ICE powerplants.  Not just cars or trials bikes, but trucks, ships, generators and so on.  it is not a panacea but an effective measure that can be used now to start the long difficult journey to a sustainable future.  I have no issue with electric cars, if you want one buy one, but they are not "green".  Nor are they the "answer" to anything.  My drive to work and back every day lends itself to an electric vehicle, but our delivery van is a better choice as I have it anyway and so do not need to buy another vehicle with all the CO2 making it would require.  The small amount of diesel burned is much much less than the CO2 of buying and running a small electric car just to go to work and back.

I am not putting this forward as a "solution" simply an improvement and as a negative in the  debate about electric powered vehicles which seem to provoke such a hate reaction in some people - enough to make them dismiss the whole discussion, which is counterproductive.

The solutions to fossil CO2 are well known and well understood and available today the world over.  The resistance to change is driven by the oil lobby which is determined to destroy the ability of the planet to sustain human life in any sensible number.  The first big step is stopping the halfwitted lies told by the politicians; Trump, Putin, Johnson, Morrison and so on.  They are the real problem and are corrupt to the core in taking money from the fossil fuel industry.  Even Obama took oil money in his campaign - it is not just a simple left-right issue, it goes much much deeper than that.

Anyway I am looking forward to burning no more than a couple of litres of two stroke this afternoon.  I hope you will forgive me my extravagance.

 

Stay a bit chilled out and work with me on this.  Your posts are enlightening and actually have me learning a bit more about energy alternatives others find viable at the present time.

Bio fuels that are 100% bio are not here in the USA yet as far as I know.  Are they available elsewhere yet?  We do have ethanol / gasoline blends.

The vehicles I know of that use 100% bio fuel have been conversions to run cooking oil.  Owners buy or are given used deep fry cooking oils that are being replaced at restaurants.  Previously worked a guy that had done conversion to his car.  Granted he was not getting new cooking oil, so he had to, I believe he it in order to filter it before use.

Going a step further, is it viable to have bio fuel / electric hybrids?  I ask based on the need for electricity in general for other stuff.

Likely wrong, but if the oil companies truly had the next viable alternative and could still make money at it they would.  The auto manufacturers need to be  part of the answer also.  The citizens must also be willing to accept the changes.  So far, it seems, some changes have been ok, while others have created more grief or expense that should not be happening.

Will add, with the COVID issues the way some things have been done, may be a partial solution.  My wifes job has her now, and for a few months now, been working from home.  Not viable for everyone, but in the case of her work, very doable.  

As for politicians, lobbyists, and money, plus kids, husbands and others on payrolls of foreign companies, or as part of the Presidential team, no doubt a concern.  One more area where there needs to be more truths and consequences when needed.

 

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Leaning this back towards politics.

Any recent news about Biden's son Hunter and his income from foreign companies.

Guessing some of you saw the news this week where Nancy Pelosi got caught having her hair done, and no COVID mask at a hair salon she allowed to be opened by overriding her own rules that hair salons remain closed.

The campaign ads for Joe Biden, well, they sure seem like the same BS being thrown against the wall again.

Apparently, the Democrats took it upon themselves to remove portion of the long standing USA pledge to the flag.  Very unAmerican to me.

Any thoughts on these few Democratic governed cities that are openly letting destruction take place, and in many cases endorsing it.

Still trying to get good facts about the guy that shot protesters.  Initially they made him out to be a crazed lunatic with a gun, but later I heard he was accomplishing volunteer work and was getting beaten by protesters, which he then protected himself by shooting the several guys that were attacking him.  Plus, it appears all those beating on him were all current criminals.

Read the Trump cancelled the provisions Obama had put in place for himself, family, and support team to travel extensively for years, paid for entirely by the US taxpayers.  As part of this it read that Michelle Obama was using taxpayer money to buy lavish items.

It has also been reported that Michelle Obamas mother was hired as sort of a high paid Nanny to watch the Obama kids during those 8 years.  The contract also included a $15,000 per month for life payment until she passed away, again taxpayer money,

Guessing COVID is cured the day after the election.  Mail in ballots has lost the limelight.  Guessing the next hot item is due out soon.

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I had to get a Covid test yesterday for a surgery this week. Largest testing center for our state. 50+ cars in the medical line. Only 3-4 cars in the actual covid line. I did get my results online in less than 24 hours. Thankfully I get to have my elbow surgery so I can continue riding trials till I die.

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3 hours ago, pmk said:

Stay a bit chilled out and work with me on this.  Your posts are enlightening and actually have me learning a bit more about energy alternatives others find viable at the present time.

Bio fuels that are 100% bio are not here in the USA yet as far as I know.  Are they available elsewhere yet?  We do have ethanol / gasoline blends.

The vehicles I know of that use 100% bio fuel have been conversions to run cooking oil.  Owners buy or are given used deep fry cooking oils that are being replaced at restaurants.  Previously worked a guy that had done conversion to his car.  Granted he was not getting new cooking oil, so he had to, I believe he it in order to filter it before use.

Going a step further, is it viable to have bio fuel / electric hybrids?  I ask based on the need for electricity in general for other stuff.

Likely wrong, but if the oil companies truly had the next viable alternative and could still make money at it they would.  ...

 

I think globally the trend is bio/mineral blends.  There are some full bio and these are vegetable oil diesels.  I don't know much about Mexico but they ran "gasahol" for a long time as they had lots of sugar cane and no oil (and no dollars).  I guess that is what we now call E85?  One big problem is the use of palm oil and the subsequent deforestation of the Amazon to grow it.  Vegetable oil is the best way forward and can be derived from corn (maize) and canola (oil seed rape) and sunflower (same in English).  Old cooking oil as you describe is super green as it is otherwise waste and this is a great way to use it up.  It needs some treatment but is nevertheless worth looking at if you have a supply of it (McDonalds run lorries on it here)

The electric idea is sound enough - when you want to slow down you reverse the motor to a generator and recharge the battery.  This improves the fuel consumption whatever the fuel is (including electric powered cars).  No reason it cannot be used with a vegetable oil motor.  The first Transit hybrid panel van is out in the UK.  It has a small diesel engine (Fiesta) fitted and this powers the van via the battery as a generator.  From a whole life CO2 viewpoint there are lots of issues.  Firstly manufacture of the batteries.  Second the weight of the extra equipment and batteries needed reduce efficiency.  Then there is recycling of the batteies and disposal when they have finally stopped working.  The additional cost of the van makes it a nonsense.  The battery only range is 30 miles (enough for my commute) but this only makes sense if you can plug it in and charge it frequently.  I will stick to my diesel for the time being.

The #1 issue for the oil companies is the dollar value of 'their' oil in the ground.  Their "reserves" directly affect their share price.  Even without taking the oil out the rights to extract it determine the capital value of the company and for most of the directors this directly affects their wealth and value of share schemes, often millions of dollars per person.  It's enough to get a man to lie without doubt.  The irony is the electric vehicle replacement that is planned devalues the other part of oil companies that biofuels would leave in place - the distribution and retailing businesses.  You would still go to the pump, buy "gas" and pick up a six pack and some smokes just like now.  Electric vehicles just plug in at the parking lot in Walmart.

In years to come oil companies will be sued like the tobacco companies and the lies and corruption will be exposed.  This is why there is so much disinformation - the executives with million dollar share options are rich now, but if the real truth is told they will be in jail (with Mr Trump and his friends and family).  So they bribe the political class to leave things as they are.  One day this will change, the big question is will it change soon enough?  I would argue it needs to change now or we must face a very bleak future.

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Chris, Gasohol was a USA product.  It was here long ago, guessing it was probably E5.

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18 hours ago, lineaway said:

I had to get a Covid test yesterday for a surgery this week. Largest testing center for our state. 50+ cars in the medical line. Only 3-4 cars in the actual covid line. I did get my results online in less than 24 hours. Thankfully I get to have my elbow surgery so I can continue riding trials till I die.

Myself, I have been tested several times for COVID.  Not that I had symptoms or great concerns, rather it is a simple no cost to me additional test done when doing blood counts.

Sadly though, if the information is correct, it is said each time tested, regardless if a person tests positive or negative, the statistics are logged as a reported case of COVID.

I live in one of those Hot Spots.  Population in Palm Beach County is 1.46 million people.  Initially, I closely watched the trends of how many cases / how many deaths.  I gave up watching prior to the numbers exceeding even 1% of the local population here in PBC.  My primary reason for stopping was that I learned that all deaths hospital deaths were being reported as COVID deaths.

Locally, medical clinics designated parking for COVID testing like handicap parking.  My general physicians office designated about 10 parking spaces nearest the walkway to the entrance as COVID testing patients only.  The building is shared by my dentist too.  I had to have a tooth repaired a few months ago when the COVID concern was very much in our face.  Between the visits to the dentist, and the doctor for a routine physical, not once did I see a vehicle in those designated parking spots.

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43 minutes ago, pmk said:

Chris, Gasohol was a USA product.  It was here long ago, guessing it was probably E5.

You can't trust the TV 😁

I remember a program (many) years ago about Mexican fuel shortages.  They made the VW Beetle there long after it was obsolete in Europe and the program mentioned the ethanol based fuel.  I can see now that this is not the case.  Just shows how we can all argue about all sorts of things and are sure we "know" something.  Anyway thank you for the correction - I can't find anything about Mexico and biofuel historically.

 

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7 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

You can't trust the TV 😁

I remember a program (many) years ago about Mexican fuel shortages.  They made the VW Beetle there long after it was obsolete in Europe and the program mentioned the ethanol based fuel.  I can see now that this is not the case.  Just shows how we can all argue about all sorts of things and are sure we "know" something.  Anyway thank you for the correction - I can't find anything about Mexico and biofuel historically.

 

Wasn't that TV program about Brazil? Brazil is known for its sugarcane-based ethanol fuel program and VW Beetle production also.

 

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