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One For The Americans

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26 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

Firstly congratulations to Mr Biden who it appears is just now awaiting some adult behaviour from the incumbent (might be a long wait).

Second, I think this is an important point Nigel, a lot of the CO2 from a vehicle is the manufacture of it and the disposal and recycling of it.  If you take the whole life CO2 of a typical car the output from the exhaust is not the only issue.  By using renewable energy to make and recycle vehicles it is reducing the overall problem from the transport sector.  Sadly due to people like Mr Trump we are way too late in this process.  The actual automotive fuel could have been tolerated longer if the electricity for production and recycling had been generated without fossil CO2.  We now find ourselves in the "emergency" stage due to the lies and obstinacy of the Trumps, the Bolsonaros and the Morrisons of the world.  If true and effective remedial action is to be taken it will hit us all hard.  Personally it makes me angry that my enjoyment of motorcycling and trials in particular is threatened because we come to the solution too late.  The right course of action 30 years ago and we would be in a good place now with just as good a lifestyle.

Its funny that you quote 30 years as that was the time when Charles Ware was extolling the vitues of "re-cycling/re-manufacturing" the classic morris minor. There was some significant merit to his argument and with development of the idea with more recent models or possible additions of catalytic converters there is a wider debate and accounting of whole life emmisions including production that should be done.

agreed too little too late and Trump just hasnt helped with his ostrich views.

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3 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

Scrapping vehicles is not the complete picture though is it? Over production and use of energy and materials in that, regardless of the enviromentally soundness of the vehicle produced has to be taken into consideration as well surely? I saw somewhere that the installation and production of a wind turbine takes 25 years to recoup the damage in production. Dont get me wrong im all for saving the plant but there is a con with every pro.

It really is very simple actually.

We just need to stop using so much energy in everything we do.

Work locally, walk to work, use public transport, live at ambient temperature whenever possible. Pretending we can continue consuming as we do is a cruel joke!

What we are doing now is trying to scale back our consumption without really making any sacrifices. It's a good first step and it's a pragmatic approach, but it's not a long term solution. 7.8 billion people on the planet mostly trying to emulate our western consumption - not possible.

It's going to fall to our kids to really make the big and meaningful changes I think.

3 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

When you are sucked in to regurgitating phrases like "fake news" and then that news actually turns out to be true, tell us how that feels?

I wasn't going to be quite so blunt. 😄

Quote

the Trumps, the Bolsonaros and the Morrisons 

OOH. That hurts having our fearless leader bundled with the other two. Completely true sadly.

One former Prime Minister always refers to Morrison as "Scotty from marketing" 🤣

Edited by bikerpet
ScoMo.
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21 hours ago, biffsgasgas said:

 

--Biff

PS. I've been on zippy's lawn... no guns were pointed and he made me move a bunch of logs.

Exceptions are made for good friends, but great friends help you rearrange logs with a smile.

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7 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

When you are sucked in to regurgitating phrases like "fake news" and then that news actually turns out to be true, tell us how that feels?

 I am not sucked into anything. The media declared Biden the winner. Our country is not run by the associated press. The counting is not finished. All four of the last states is less than a 1% margin. The Democrates are just sqeaking by with Biden/Harris. Pretty poor showing against a man that most of the World dislikes. What are they going to do if the GOP gets a guy that actually has a personality.

 What you people don't get, its not that we have a love affair with the likes of Trump. It's that we hate lifetime poliiticians like Biden. The Democrates speak like they care abiut the USA, but are just a bunch of crooks.

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1 hour ago, lineaway said:

... What you people don't get, its not that we have a love affair with the likes of Trump. It's that we hate lifetime poliiticians like Biden. The Democrates speak like they care abiut the USA, but are just a bunch of crooks.

I think most people do get this actually.  Mrs Clinton was a crook and it is not hard to understand why people did not want to vote for her.  What is hard to understand, really, really, really, hard to understand is how anyone can actually be dumb enough to think or believe that Trump is better.  Different sure, but better?  Mr Biden at least accepts that the scientific fact  that CO2 is causing a disaster that will screw up the world for our kids.  Maybe he will do something about it or maybe like many others he is full of BS and will do nothing.  But what is for sure and beyond doubt is that Mr Trump lied through his teeth pretending it is not real.

Mr Trump's huge tax cuts for the very rich cost the average US citizen.  Now even the rich have turned their back on him.  Myself, I think this is because big business and wealthy people are starting to realise that the green revolution will create wealth and power for them.  They are starting to understand that this is what people (well a fair chunk of people) want and so the public will back them.  I think they can see that the deniers are part of a dinosaur movement of mostly white boomer men who have had their day and their influence is failing as they age.

I would like to believe that the human race (we are just one race BTW) has the intelligence to see what must be done, the entrepreneurial skill to make money out of doing it and the integrity and honesty to see it has been done wrong up until now.  The US can lead the world in cleaning up it's act or it can play catch-up with China.  Personally I would rather the US led. 

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5 hours ago, lineaway said:

 I am not sucked into anything. The media declared Biden the winner. Our country is not run by the associated press. The counting is not finished. All four of the last states is less than a 1% margin. The Democrates are just sqeaking by with Biden/Harris. Pretty poor showing against a man that most of the World dislikes. What are they going to do if the GOP gets a guy that actually has a personality.

 What you people don't get, its not that we have a love affair with the likes of Trump. It's that we hate lifetime poliiticians like Biden. The Democrates speak like they care abiut the USA, but are just a bunch of crooks.

True that neither have yet been officially declared the winner, but I really think that if you look at it without the filters turned up too far you'd have to admit it's looking pretty unlikely for Trump. His legal actions are being dismissed by the courts, there has been no evidence produced of wrongdoing in the vote, only assertions. Even his own party stalwarts seem to be deserting him (what's that saying about rats and ships?). It's not set in stone, but it's looking pretty likely.

I'm guessing you had a straight face when you said, "What are they going to do if the GOP gets a guy that actually has a personality?". So you suggest that the US Presidential election is a personality contest? May the guy with the biggest smile and best TV personality win? Bring back Ronald perhaps? I'd prefer intelligence to personality in my leaders any day. But as Trump so clearly demonstrates, that doesn't seem to be a wildly popular view!

I completely get that we all hate politicians who talk the talk but fail to deliver, usually because they are too busy playing at party politics. We are all fed up with the crooks, the vested interests with money and power who get an outsized say in how our countries are run. What I don't get is how anyone can feel like that but still support any of them based on party affiliations! I couldn't give a toss which party someone is affiliated with if they are demonstrably a decent person who works to put in place policies and processes that support the greater population, and now the planet. That involves giving up some Nationalist cheerleading in order to work quickly and effectively for a world we can all continue to live reasonably comfortably in for the future. If nations insist on aggressively competing with each other we're stuffed.

As for claiming the Democrats are a bunch of crooks - even accepting that on face value, do you seriously believe that the Republicans are any less so after this past Presidential term? How can that be possible given the demonstrably baseless lies Trump spouts, his evident "tax minimisation", the nepotism, rushing a Supreme Court judge in after they obstructed previous Democrat governments installing one even in their last year, let alone weeks before an election.

I'm not sure the Democrats have yet managed to surpass Nixon, Bush Jnr. and Trump for lying, crooked behaviour.

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6 hours ago, lineaway said:

 I am not sucked into anything. The media declared Biden the winner. Our country is not run by the associated press. The counting is not finished. All four of the last states is less than a 1% margin. The Democrates are just sqeaking by with Biden/Harris. Pretty poor showing against a man that most of the World dislikes. What are they going to do if the GOP gets a guy that actually has a personality.

 What you people don't get, its not that we have a love affair with the likes of Trump. It's that we hate lifetime poliiticians like Biden. The Democrates speak like they care abiut the USA, but are just a bunch of crooks.

So, point by point ...

Even Fox News have declared Biden the winner, gotta be a stretch when someone with over 4 million more votes and the electoral college in the bag doesn't count as winning in your book.

Are you saying that Trump doesn't have a personality?

Why is being a lifetime politician a bad thing?  People who are politicians professionally know how to get things done, how to get people on their side, how to negotiate, how to be diplomatic.  Instead of having a tantrum when someone anyone says something mean to them or not understanding how tariffs work.

If Trump's supporters didn't have a love affair with him, why did they buy flags, banners, hats, and even sink boats in his name (even between elections)?

And if democrats are such crooks why is Hillary not in jail?  I thought that was going to be a slam dunk when Republicans controlled all of the government, did 7 investigations into Benghazi, questioned Clinton for 11 hours, etc etc.  Trump said it was going to be easy, and the first thing he did when becoming president.

And if they're all crooks, they must be super smart criminal masterminds to keep getting away with it.  Meanwhile the GOP has how many convictions from the current administration?

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10 hours ago, bikerpet said:

...I'm not sure the Democrats have yet managed to surpass Nixon, Bush Jnr. and Trump for lying, crooked behaviour.

To be fair this (accurate) observation is why a lot of people turn to someone that is not (in their mind) a career politician.  After a lifetime of seeing politicians lie and cheat many think it is time to try an alternative.  Of course it is an act, a falsehood but it is a gimmick that works.  Here in the UK the support for Farage was much along that line.  Even though he had spent many years as a politician (doing nothing) in the European Parliament many saw him as an "outsider" and not a career politician.  In the European Parliament he represented the UK's fishing interests.  Mostly he did not bother to turn up for meetings and made no representation.  Despite that in the Brexit debate the fishermen supported him (and leaving) with the famous stunt of sailing up the Thames in a trawler.

Being conned like that is something that people resent but find hard to admit.  The logical thing is to accept you have been had and call out the person that conned you, but some folk just double down on the lie and refuse to accept the truth.  You can see that very clearly now in our (UK) negotiations with the EU and I feel sure that support in the US for Trump also followed that pattern.  Mrs Clinton was appalling and would have been a hard choice but after four years of Trump surely now anyone can see he is no different, certainly no better.  The original mistake is forgivable but to compound it much less so.

Sadly our mistake, to leave the EU, will not be so easy to fix.  With no Trump to give us a "deal" (I think the correct US term is "ass whooping"?) it is going to be that much harder to continue the pretence.  Mr Biden will be more concerned about the consequences of the Irish border issue than his predecessor.  Our idiot PM, Mr Johnson will begin to look even more what he is; weak and foolish and very much crooked and dishonest.

I am jealous of our friends in the US - they are in a position that may well turn out well.  We, on the other hand, have a mountain to climb.  I wish the US all the luck it deserves and hope that after the initial disappointment Mr Biden turns out not to be the bogeyman so many Trump voters fear.  To European eyes he looks like just another POTUS cast from the mould.  I can't see him doing much harm and some good.

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2 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

Sadly our mistake, to leave the EU, will not be so easy to fix.  ... Our idiot PM, Mr Johnson will begin to look even more what he is; weak and foolish and very much crooked and dishonest.

I am jealous of our friends in the US - they are in a position that may well turn out well.  We, on the other hand, have a mountain to climb.  I wish the US all the luck it deserves and hope that after the initial disappointment Mr Biden turns out not to be the bogeyman so many Trump voters fear.  To European eyes he looks like just another POTUS cast from the mould.  I can't see him doing much harm and some good.

Indeed. It's largely incomprehensible to me that Brexit went that way. What the UK stands to gain by leaving the EU compared to what it stands to loose ... on a one way ticket for at least some time.

I suspect Biden might end up going down in history as an "achiever" president, not because he's actually that good, but because he's been given so much scope for improvement. But I agree, in more "normal" times it would be pretty much same-old same-old. Still better than Scotty from marketing though.

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1 hour ago, bikerpet said:

Indeed. It's largely incomprehensible to me that Brexit went that way. What the UK stands to gain by leaving the EU compared to what it stands to loose ... on a one way ticket for at least some time.

I suspect Biden might end up going down in history as an "achiever" president, not because he's actually that good, but because he's been given so much scope for improvement. But I agree, in more "normal" times it would be pretty much same-old same-old. Still better than Scotty from marketing though.

I find it very interesting that the main driver of Brexit, the UKIP political party is highly populated by climate change deniers.  Mr Farage is a friend of Mr Trump and both seem to me to be drawn from the well of Koch and Murdoch (maybe that should be "swamp"?).  Clearly there is a huge slush fund with enough in it that personal wealth can be extracted in the fight to prevent the necessary actions to combat climate change.

I hope that the election results mark a change of direction for the world and the world's politics.  My business imports from the EU and I can see that next year is going to be problematic.  The huge burden of administration will push prices higher and stifle much of what the UK exports to the rest of Europe.  With the double whammy of Covid I fear we will see some serious unemployment and business failure.  The UK badly needed the green new deal that was offered and rejected at our last election.

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Many said: "I vote for Trump because he's not like other politicians, he tells it like it is."
Until april 2020: "President Trump made 18,000 false or misleading claims in 1,170 days." That's an average of more than 15 a day!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/14/president-trump-made-18000-false-or-misleading-claims-1170-days/

 

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AND Trump said that we would have a covid vaccine, and this morning Pfizer announced they have one that is 90% effective.

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He also said they were looking to use bleach and that uv was getting interesting results? Was that why he was permanently orange ?

He needs to give up and let his country move on. He knew, as did many others that Democrats were predominantly going to vote by mail. So it should not have been a surprise that the longer the count went on the more his position deteriorated. 

I cant believe his supporters cant work that out. Still now you can see why he was so keen to increase the republican bias in the Supreme Court.....

 

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1 hour ago, lineaway said:

AND Trump said that we would have a covid vaccine, and this morning Pfizer announced they have one that is 90% effective.

Saying something does not equate to either foreknowledge or contributing to the outcome. He said that there would be a vaccine with no more than wishful thinking and the knowledge that medical science is pretty good at developing vaccines, like many of the rest of us of said too. So what's the significance of Trump saying it?

Pfizer have NOT said they have a 90% effective vaccine. They have released some very early results.

"The early analysis looked at just 94 infections recorded so far in a study that has enrolled nearly 44,000 people in the US and five other countries
Pfizer cautioned the initial protection rate might change by the time the study ends
Authorities stress it's unlikely any vaccine will arrive before the end of the year and limited initial supplies will be rationed"

There's also a question mark over the fact that people in the study are only tested for Covid if they show symptoms. There may be more people who contract Covid but show no symptoms either because of their personal biology or perhaps even due to some masking effect of the vaccine.

So there's still a few hoops to jump through before we have an available, effective vaccine.

Really lineaway I think you should be taking off the rose tinted glasses when you look at Trump and the Republicans and be a bit more of a critical observer. There's good and bad in all groups of people. For someone who doesn't like lying politicians you have a significant blind spot when it comes to your favoured racehorse! 

6 minutes ago, baldilocks said:

I cant believe his supporters cant work that out. Still now you can see why he was so keen to increase the republican bias in the Supreme Court.....

I expect there's a very large percentage of his supporters who believe biblical history verbatim, anticipating the future could certainly be difficult coming from that perspective.

Is it now I run for cover for my beliefs I wonder?

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