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One For The Americans

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Bikerpet, again, and while accomplishing your reply edited into my post, you demonstrate your thoughts and desires do align with my local Republicans.

Regarding N Korea, you brought out great points.  You point to Trump causing grief for your own country but yet, it seems, your own country may not have even tried to save itself.  In many ways, the same as other countries.  “Oh woe is me” was not displayed by Trump.  No world leader has the power to tell another world leader they are not allowed to do something.  Trump did, because he did the right thing as the rest of the world merely wanted to talk.  I think the term is “Actions speak louder than words”.

Maybe the upcoming year will unfold poorly and the world can see how N Korea responds.

In comparison, there may be certain things other countries are doing, regarding weapons, that N Korea does not agree with.  If N Korea told the leader of that country to stop, would they stop.  Hell no.  In the same hell no, N Korea continues what it believes it needs, and is justified.  Time will tell if the next generation of world ambassadors is capable of dealing with N Korea.

If not, then all this enviro stuff becomes a smidge less relevant.  

Many of you have brought up your concerns to save the planet and dislike of Trump.  As the entire world fails at accomplishing your goals, what are you prepared to accept as the outcome?  Hypothetically, if the USA, or in even easier to understand terms, lets just assume, North America in its entirety was no longer on the globe.  Yes, assume there is no USA, Canada, or Mexico.  That is removed from your concerns to save the environment.

Then what?  Is there another focal point?  Is the rest of the world able to continue without the resources from North America?  Not talking government money resources, a war Allie, our power.  Simply, is North America so worthless that the rest of the world does not need North America to survive?

Now expand the question, with North America gone, no USA, how does the remaining world contend with world powers, and specifically those powers that do not agree with your own “Lifestyle”.

Be cautious how you answer, most of you despise a bully and prefer diplomacy over actions.  As in any worthwhile conversations, sometimes an extreme “what if” must be asked.

Realize too, how you decide your answer, whether you reply or not, defines who you are, good or bad.

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Patriotism is alive and well in the USA

 

Edited by pmk
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47 minutes ago, pmk said:

Interesting to watch, and not so sure this video indicates it is the USA at fault regarding all the ECO stuff.

 

Ah, the old; too many people BS.  For sure an aggravating factor but the only real problem is the climate change deniers and people making excuses.  The world can stop climate change easily - just stop digging up fossil hydrocarbons.  Soon it will be too late to do that because other gases, particularly methane will be released as part of the feedback loop due to rising temperature in the polar regions.

Every year that has gone by with large sources of CO2 like the US pretending it is not their problem has contributed to the current emergency and the feedback situation.  The last four years the US has had a climate denier as it's head of state, thankfully this disaster has now been put right and soon the world will be back to tackling the problem.  Unfortunately there are still other liars out there in Brazil, Russia, India, Australia and so on.  Sadly there are many more "get round to it" countries as well.  We will do something by 2030, 2050, this year, next year, never.

It has been refreshing to see Mr Biden talk about climate change and the need to do something about it.  This is to be welcomed. 

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2 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

Ah, the old; too many people BS.  For sure an aggravating factor but the only real problem is the climate change deniers and people making excuses.  The world can stop climate change easily - just stop digging up fossil hydrocarbons.  Soon it will be too late to do that because other gases, particularly methane will be released as part of the feedback loop due to rising temperature in the polar regions.

Every year that has gone by with large sources of CO2 like the US pretending it is not their problem has contributed to the current emergency and the feedback situation.  The last four years the US has had a climate denier as it's head of state, thankfully this disaster has now been put right and soon the world will be back to tackling the problem.  Unfortunately there are still other liars out there in Brazil, Russia, India, Australia and so on.  Sadly there are many more "get round to it" countries as well.  We will do something by 2030, 2050, this year, next year, never.

It has been refreshing to see Mr Biden talk about climate change and the need to do something about it.  This is to be welcomed. 

Your key word is “talk” and you are welcoming the words of a known liar.

They often say a fool and his money are soon parted, in this situation regarding your savior, I say keep drinking the Kool Aide.

 

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Well if it was not for paper ballots, we would not have a chance to verify the real vote. As it is we might never know. The supreme court is already looking into the vote in Pennsylvania.

 Biden can now be persecuted for making deals with foreign countries. A citizen is not allowed this privilege. As it undermines the current President. Biden actually did this to the Trump administration for a phone call in December of 2016. Funny how he never thought it would apply to himself.

 Bikerpet good luck on the new bike, I bought one myself last year. It still sits waiting for a rider!

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On 11/9/2020 at 6:23 PM, biffsgasgas said:

lol giving Trump credit for that!!! Scientists and people like me who participated in a clinical trial is how they got there. So why haven't you given any credit to the Germans for their contribution? BioNTech not Murica first enough I see. I am glad to see the Stock market do what fear mongers said it wouldn't. Simple fact is that we have more good people here and we are not going to take credit for the work of smart experts who can do amazing things if we trust in their expertise even if we don't agree. We should count the military votes we should count all votes. 

--Biff

 Some scientists. The country that found it easier to cheat than actually make a clean diesel.I would not trust anything from the Fatherland.

It's been dubbed the "diesel dupe". In September, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) found that many VW cars being sold in America had a "defeat device" - or software - in diesel engines that could detect when they were being tested, changing the performance accordingly to improve results. The German car giant has since admitted cheating emissions tests in the US

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12 minutes ago, lineaway said:

 Some scientists. The country that found it easier to cheat than actually make a clean diesel.I would not trust anything from the Fatherland.

It's been dubbed the "diesel dupe". In September, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) found that many VW cars being sold in America had a "defeat device" - or software - in diesel engines that could detect when they were being tested, changing the performance accordingly to improve results. The German car giant has since admitted cheating emissions tests in the US

Lineaway, oh how can this be.

No doubt these naysayers will say it is “fake news”.

Ironic to read their points of view so “my way or the highway”.

Still trying to understand the comment that population is not to be a blame for pollution.  Taken to the simplest form, if there were no humans, would pollution be a serious concern?  Taken to the next tier, if there is human life, and these persons focus is pollution, humans overall fail miserably at many things, and that said, are these guys here posting a solution or simply another attempt that will fail?

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13 minutes ago, pmk said:

...Still trying to understand the comment that population is not to be a blame for pollution.  Taken to the simplest form, if there were no humans, would pollution be a serious concern? 

Taken to the simplest form it is not how many people are in the elevator it is how many of them are farting.

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53 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

Taken to the simplest form it is not how many people are in the elevator it is how many of them are farting.

So now, you are off your diesel kick based on fossil fuel and prefer naturally occurring methane and hydrogen?

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8 minutes ago, biffsgasgas said:

Those of us that voted legally are the majority here. 

--Biff

Actually, I agree with this 100%, legal votes counts, plain and simple.  If there is an error, it needs to be corrected and then determine the correct outcome.

2 months ago, friends that wished to discuss politics I stepped away from the conversation.  I essentially was no longer able to determine fact from fiction to all the information provided.

Yes, count the legal votes, disregard the illegal votes, and if the electronic machines are uncertain to know a difference if one exists, then that will need to be resolved.

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For once I disagree with ChrisCH - population is a huge part of the problem. Too many people consuming too much based on unsustainable systems. Breaking any link in the chain and things improve dramatically, cut all three back and things get better exponentially.

China once again has actually done better than most on the population front in more recent years - although I'm not so excited about the authoritarian manner in which it was achieved. Australia, for once, is doing it's bit too with a negative population growth - sadly our impact on world figures is pretty insignificant.

Where the argument weakens somewhat is that it has been a very small group within the global population who have consumed an outsized proportion of the resources and emitted the lions share of the GHG - we in the "developed countries", Europe, USA, Australia etc. Now large populations elsewhere are catching us up it's becoming a massive, rapidly increasing problem.

pmk, regarding some of the logic you display around, say N. Korea - it's just not logical by my assessment. You seem to have confused what has actually happened, what Trump has said has happened and what you'd like to have happened. The nuclear capability in N. Korea has grown. Kim remains the same person he was and can be expected to resume his muscle flexing behaviour at some stage irrespective of who is in the white house, the kremlin, china's equivalent building etc. Trump has said he's dealt with it, and you'd like it to be dealt with, that does not make it so. Frustratingly I doubt I'll get the chance to say, "I told you so" because Trump wont be in the white house when N. Korea next escalates the situation. Wake up and smell the roses is about all I can say.

The absolutely laughable implications I see here that Biden is a liar .... just what do you think you're saying? Have you honestly never lied yourself? Has Trump never lied (if you say "no" to that you are an utter, unmitigated fool not to put too fine a point on it!)? So just what do you think you are proving by saying Biden has lied? Of course he has. That's not excusing it or saying it's right - it's not right. It's just the ****ty reality of the world we live in. You say Biden lied, I say Trump lied. We're both correct and we achieve nothing in terms of showing the other is a better person/leader/whatever. It's pathetic he-lied, she-lied school yard behaviour, you should be embarrassed.

Trump is a fool of the highest order - he can barely string a coherent sentence together these days, a primary school teacher would be in despair if some of the sentences he utters came out of one of their pupil's work. Coherent paragraphs are usually a step too far. Read the transcripts of what he says - it's barely believable that someone would utter this stuff outside a care facility.

Our politicians are mostly a pretty rancorous lot across the globe (Jacinda Adern in NZ is the only one I'm familiar with who I'd have confidence in), accepting any of their glib and misleading statements and assurances at face value is foolishness, just as it would be accepting everything the archetypal used car salesman tells you (apologies to any scrupled and honest used car salesmen). Listen to what they say, then try to pick holes in it, don't try to find ways to believe it!

And the red herring about VW-Gate from lineaway. What? You are going to conflate the behaviour of a multi-national corporate giant with the nation in which it happens to be nominally based! Have you been alive & awake for the past few decades? Have you ever read anything at all about corporate mis-behaviour? Going on that excuse for logic I could absolutely annihilate the USA for the obscene behaviour of so many of it's corporate giants, behaviour that makes VW's look like it was a paragon of honesty and responsibility. If you're happy to say you wouldn't trust anything from Germany, I guess it makes it reasonable that no-one should trust anything out of the USA, more so because the US government has well documented (by them in the national archives) activities actively supporting some of these corrupt companies.

:wall::wall::suicide:

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10 hours ago, lineaway said:

 Bikerpet good luck on the new bike, I bought one myself last year. It still sits waiting for a rider!

I'm now the proud owner of this very bike:

Sadly it seems to have forgotten everything it has been taught. :rolleyes:

I'd say "get on it". I'm having a great time learning the most basic things. Even static balance on it is a level up from the moto, with the bottom bracket so high. Endos are sooo easy though. Back wheel hops still elude me (well, I can get up on the back wheel after about 5 hours practice and make a vague imitation of a hop before jumping to the ground). I can certainly feel it doing my shoulders good!

If you've ever looked at a good trials rider's shins you'll know to wear shin protection!

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9 hours ago, bikerpet said:

...Where the argument weakens somewhat is that it has been a very small group within the global population who have consumed an outsized proportion of the resources and emitted the lions share of the GHG - we in the "developed countries", Europe, USA, Australia etc. Now large populations elsewhere are catching us up it's becoming a massive, rapidly increasing problem.

That is the issue.  Not the actual size of the world's population right here and now, but the massive legacy problem we have created and the fact that there is now a huge queue of people behind us that want to add to the problem.  As I said, an aggravating factor not the root cause.  It is used as an excuse to try to deflect away from our responsibility to clean our mess up.  Or an excuse that cleaning the mess up is pointless as the [insert group of choice] are trying to destroy the ecosystem all on their own.

A shift to renewable and to carbon neutral energy sources is needed and then the issue of world population becomes just one of overcrowding and land use.  Still a big problem.  Fortunately it is easily tackled, just like climate change.  Large family size is mostly driven by poverty and misogyny.  By educating and empowering women you can reduce reproductive rates quite effectively.  Once again the political right are doing their best to prevent that.  In Brazil the lunatic there is asking people to reproduce as if there is no tomorrow.  Mr Trump's recent appointee Barrett doesn't think women should be allowed control of their own bodies and reproductive rights.

I lived in Italy for a while.  It is a religious country and deeply catholic.  The Pope was at the time against contraception.  The average family size for Italian women was one child.  Education and access to a decent life was the solution.  Italian north/south divide is reflected in per capita income and in family size.  As you go more south it gets poorer and families get bigger.

I am an optimist, I see the solution to the problems.  The thing stopping us doing what is needed is the political hard right, people like Trump.  Ironically people vote for idiots like that because they are scared that their income and lifestyle is under threat and yet it is the hard right that threatens them and the move to neoliberal economics.  Maybe, just maybe, Mr Biden is the start of a turning point and a move away from this divisive and destructive political movement that has brought us to this place.  If so the US will again lead the world in the  right direction.  That will be a good thing.

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