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One For The Americans

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I'd laugh my a*** off if the security service had to go I to the Whitehouse and march Trump off the premises. It looks like that could happen too. ?

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 From a mathematical view it`s a very interesting election. No one has ever lost the election having won both Ohio and Florida. It did happen once in 1960. Kennedy beat out Nixon. It`s widely known about the corruption in that election. Nixon took the high road and took his defeat. He knew he was cheated, but did what he thought was best for the country.

 No way Trump would ever back down knowing he was cheated. The democrats did not think this through very well. Trump and 70 million voters will never forget.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election_in_Illinois

 Or just look up the 1960 election for yourself. Numbers don`t lie, people do.

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22 minutes ago, lineaway said:

 From a mathematical view it`s a very interesting election. No one has ever lost the election having won both Ohio and Florida. It did happen once in 1960. Kennedy beat out Nixon. It`s widely known about the corruption in that election. Nixon took the high road and took his defeat. He knew he was cheated, but did what he thought was best for the country.

 No way Trump would ever back down knowing he was cheated. The democrats did not think this through very well. Trump and 70 million voters will never forget.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election_in_Illinois

 Or just look up the 1960 election for yourself. Numbers don`t lie, people do.

electoral_precedent.png

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 I laughed as it got 1868 and 1872 right being Grant is part of my my bloodline, the stickman graph was correct.

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17 hours ago, lineaway said:

 No way Trump would ever back down knowing he was cheated. The democrats did not think this through very well. Trump and 70 million voters will never forget.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election_in_Illinois

 Or just look up the 1960 election for yourself. Numbers don`t lie, people do.

What's your definition of Trump "knowing he was cheated" @lineaway? His imagination saying it's so? His cronies saying it's so? A bunch of citizens saying it's so based on absolutely no real knowledge or evidence? Certainly not a judiciary if it hasn't been hand picked by him!

You're probably right that he'll never back down but it's got nothing to do with "knowledge", it's only got to do with what he chooses to believe, despite the evidence to the contrary.

It's pretty hard to argue with people like him who maintain that because they believe something then it's true, Q.E.D. Doesn't make them right though.

 

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On 1/1/2021 at 12:03 PM, lineaway said:

Trump and 70 million voters will never forget.

Luckily the majority vote here isn't as forgetful. We remember the constitution, morals, amendments, how to count... its a pretty big list. If you forget all of the facts and reality then of course you will only remember the way you thought it would happen. I am excited for Biden's inauguration as are the majority of Americans. Majority... 

--Biff

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30 minutes ago, biffsgasgas said:

Luckily the majority vote here isn't as forgetful. We remember the constitution, morals, amendments, how to count... its a pretty big list. If you forget all of the facts and reality then of course you will only remember the way you thought it would happen. I am excited for Biden's inauguration as are the majority of Americans. Majority... 

--Biff

I dare say the Germans and the Japanese will never forget their losses in the 2nd world war either. So I suppose they were cheated out of a fair win too?

The logic is astounding.

Edited by bikerpet

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1 hour ago, biffsgasgas said:

Luckily the majority vote here isn't as forgetful. We remember the constitution, morals, amendments, how to count... its a pretty big list. If you forget all of the facts and reality then of course you will only remember the way you thought it would happen. I am excited for Biden's inauguration as are the majority of Americans. Majority... 

--Biff

Luckily our election has nothing to do with a majority vote. But this election has taken us down a dark path we have never been down before. A lot of twists and turns, truths and untruths. Just yesterday Facebook again tried influencing the Georgia runoff election by shutting down sites of both of the Republican Senators. The USA has always counted on fair elections. When most of the media is jaded one side or another, it is no longer an honest contest.

 

 

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 And if you think it is going away, it`s not. Dedicated people have been working through what is usually the biggest holiday shut down in America.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/georgia-election-data-shows-17650-votes-switched-from-trump-to-biden-data-scientists_3640670.html?utm_source=news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-01-02-1

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2 hours ago, lineaway said:

Luckily our election has nothing to do with a majority vote. But this election has taken us down a dark path we have never been down before. A lot of twists and turns, truths and untruths. Just yesterday Facebook again tried influencing the Georgia runoff election by shutting down sites of both of the Republican Senators. The USA has always counted on fair elections. When most of the media is jaded one side or another, it is no longer an honest contest.

@lineaway I'm confused. I thought US elections were decided by majority vote. Well, usually a majority of the +/-50% who actually bother to vote, so you're right, a minority.

I really don't understand why it would be considered "lucky" that the election has nothing to do with majority vote. Whilst "democracy" does not require a majority vote, it does seem that a majority vote is one of the better ways to ensure more accurate representation of the population's wishes. Why do you think it's lucky that the "election has nothing to do with a majority vote"? That really surprises me. Why would you want a government elected by a minority? And if you do want a government elected by a minority, how is that minority selected?

You are correct that this election has gone down a dark path, and yes the media and social media have been complicit in some of it, as they have been for many decades. However it remains Trump and his apparatchiks who continue to do all they can to try to derail the process that has apparently provided you with "fair elections" in the past. Thus far there has been almost no credible evidence (as opposed to claims) that the Democrats (or the Republicans) have systemically cheated the election. So you either need to accept that the election has been fair, or you have to conclude that previous elections have not been fair either. So perhaps Trump and the Republicans cheated their way into power too? In which case it's just swings and roundabouts and fair to both parties. But not fair to you the voters, but that then requires you to censure both parties equally.

Personally I think it's pretty much a joke to consider the US electoral process fair or representative, but that's beside the point.

1 hour ago, lineaway said:

 And if you think it is going away, it`s not. Dedicated people have been working through what is usually the biggest holiday shut down in America.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/georgia-election-data-shows-17650-votes-switched-from-trump-to-biden-data-scientists_3640670.html?utm_source=news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-01-02-1

Wikipedia - The Epoch Times opposes the Chinese Communist Party,[20] promotes far-right politicians in Europe,[3][5] and backs President Donald Trump in the U.S.;[21] a 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[18][22][23] The Epoch Media Group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccination propaganda.

I guess you're just providing examples of the jaded media, not suggesting this is unbiased reporting?

Edited by bikerpet
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11 hours ago, lineaway said:

... this election has taken us down a dark path we have never been down before. A lot of twists and turns, truths and untruths. ...

 

I am sure that the lies and propaganda are nothing new.  Lies and propaganda got Trump elected in the first place.  People have told lies and spread misinformation pretty much ever since democracy was invented.  What is relatively new is the deliberate fabrication of an alternative reality to sell to the people in order to manipulate them to a given goal or end with the full backing of what should theoretically be an independent media.  When Goebbels was perfecting the art of propaganda the German media was controlled or cajoled into compliance.  Now this has been replaced by the media owners actively subverting that independence for their political aims.

When former president Richard Nixon was brought to justice the media exposed his criminality and wrongdoing.  When former president Bush illegally attacked a foreign country in contravention of International law to pursue US dominance in the oil industry the media exposed his wrongdoing.  This time round the media were part of the problem.  The political right have bought up the media in order to control it.

This division of people into two groups who do not share a common understanding of reality allows massive injustice and corruption to flourish.  The votes of the people no longer represent perfectly legitimate differences of opinion about how to run the country, they have become entrenched bitter battles of hatred about the person's "identity".  Over time this results in violence and acts of terrorism against the "other".  It is a dangerous and foolish way to live.  It is ammunition for all the Timothy McVeighs, Anders Breiviks and Steven Carrillos of this world.  

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Just one of the many weasels that is more concerned with their own career than this country and democracy.

 

C18CF818-708B-4692-8845-3328D3BC104B.jpeg

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13 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

This division of people into two groups who do not share a common understanding of reality allows massive injustice and corruption to flourish.  The votes of the people no longer represent perfectly legitimate differences of opinion about how to run the country, they have become entrenched bitter battles of hatred about the person's "identity".

I rather think this is quite separate to (but manipulated by) the media interests. The common 2 party democratic systems are one of the keys to this lack of understanding - politics has been actively turned into sport between two opposing teams, and the spectators respond similarly with blind, religious fervour for their chosen team. Usually if you stop and actually listen, individuals on both sides have sane and sensible ideas, just as both sides have raving lunatics. Vote for the individual, not the "team" and you've got some hope of a representative government. Vote for the "team" and you get - election 2020.

Although the Murdochs et al are obviously a big part of the problem, this polarisation has really flourished since the rise of Facebook, Google etc, who are still not considered "publishers" and so are largely exempted from many of the laws and social contracts that have controlled traditional news media. Bring on the day when governments finally somewhat catch up with the world they operate in. I applaud France and Australia's efforts to bring them to account.

There remains a fairly decent segment of reasonably impartial media if one takes a little effort to seek them out.

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7 hours ago, bikerpet said:

I rather think this is quite separate to (but manipulated by) the media interests. The common 2 party democratic systems are one of the keys to this lack of understanding - politics has been actively turned into sport between two opposing teams, and the spectators respond similarly with blind, religious fervour for their chosen team. Usually if you stop and actually listen, individuals on both sides have sane and sensible ideas, just as both sides have raving lunatics. Vote for the individual, not the "team" and you've got some hope of a representative government. Vote for the "team" and you get - election 2020.

Although the Murdochs et al are obviously a big part of the problem, this polarisation has really flourished since the rise of Facebook, Google etc, who are still not considered "publishers" and so are largely exempted from many of the laws and social contracts that have controlled traditional news media. Bring on the day when governments finally somewhat catch up with the world they operate in. I applaud France and Australia's efforts to bring them to account.

There remains a fairly decent segment of reasonably impartial media if one takes a little effort to seek them out.

I kind of agree but there is still (well I think) a body of people that are not signed up to one or another party (or team if you like).  Certainly here in the UK we have an arcane system in which a small number of so-called "floating voters" decide the government.  Quite how a person can "float" between two rather polarised views of how to run the country I personally don't know.  It certainly requires that the individual concerned understands nothing whatsoever about politics or governance (and probably economics as well).

It is the fruit loop or hyper enthusiast element that make the noise.  They are the ones posting on facebook and other social media (including forums like this one).  A link to a raving idiot on YouTube is "evidence" and proves that the ridiculous conspiracy theory of choice is true.  You end up with idiots charging into a pizza restaurant to find a non existent cellar.  The bit I cannot fathom is how people can be so gullible.  Being in a crowd and getting carried away is human but to experience the same lack of self discipline via an internet site seems a bit crazy to me.

 

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