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laird387a

Where are all the entries????

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If its fatigue then I can totally understand, the more you fall off the more tired you get, the more tired you get the more you fall off and so it goes on. I rode enduros for 10 years and this is especially true in that sport :D.

However the more you ride the better/fitter you get and so in theory should fall off less.

 

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17 hours ago, totty79 said:

There should be plenty of others on here with this experience, or is that the problem do most unfit middle aged new starters end up quitting? Having said that I now just practise I don't compete.

I find it exhausting, I can imagine someone less bloody-minded being put off by it.

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19 hours ago, totty79 said:

Fits my experience, fatigue sets in on lap one or two, falls become frequent, laps three and four become just about endurance. Riding with underdeveloped skills is very physical.

People tend to help in sections, it's worse to get stuck in a bog, wedged in a barbed wire fence, fall 10' into a steam, go over the bars trying to get over a log, submerge a bike etc. between sections.

There should be plenty of others on here with this experience, or is that the problem do most unfit middle aged new starters end up quitting? Having said that I now just practise I don't compete.

Now after reading that i do stand by "flat field " so its not the sections or  the course between the sections but fatigue !   You are correct thats why new starters pack in  they find it physical too hard (but whos that down to ?)   keep going, it dose get easier 

 

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The cause of fatigue has been covered.........but does it matter who it's down to? If something called the easy route is an extreme challenge for newcomers and there are very few easier alternatives then the sport is inaccessible.

I think I'll leave it at that, to be honest I feel like I'm being drawn in to hijacking the thread to fight the corner for something that doesn't really benefit me, a bit of a waste of time.

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I think that there should definitely be some sort of system in place similar to how it used to be so riders have a rough idea on the severity of the events. This used to be closed to club, restricted to centre, open to centre, national etc etc. Obviously this is unnecessary and can be simplified massively nationwide and not just in each centre as I know this is a problem all around the country.

My suggestions:

Closed to club - straightforward sections with a variety of routes for abilities. Should be pretty easy for the top riders on each course. These are where you would go for your first trial.

Centre Trials - tougher sections on all courses but still with the variety of routes

Centre Championships - basically the same as centre trials but this varies from round to round and is venue dependant.

Nationals - doesn't really need explaining although some nationals do have sections which are too severe at times but this is not every section.

The idea is that the new riders progress upwards if they want to. If the riders don't want a challenge then they can stick to doing closed to club trials and at least they know what they are getting before they go. No point turning up to a centre trial and moaning its too hard if the severity is above them and they know it will be too hard. I think the ACU could get onboard with this too so a system is brought in across the board so it makes it easier to understand for all riders - not just the newbies.

Slightly different but yesterday my club, Sheffield & Hallamshire, ran a charity trial with only one route and 16 sections per lap over a 4.5 mile course. We had 90 entries which was unbelievable to say there were 5 other events on in our centre alone but also shows we must be doing something right.

The sections ranged from usual white route sections (very easy) to expert sections with 3 graded climbs. The idea is that the usual white route riders will struggle on probably half the sections but they only do 2 laps as the inbetween going can be tricky for them. We gave a choice of either 2, 3 or 4 laps and the experts and the majority of the good clubmen (middle course) riders did 4 laps. I think the overall winner doing 4 laps lost around 10 marks doing 4 laps of 16 and he had to ride well but there were no sections at all that an absolute beginner couldn't have a go at. Obviously it won't have suited everybody but it was something completely different to normal and yes a few sections churned up a bit more than expected (especially with 90 riders) but there were no real moans and everybody had a good day out on the bikes. I'm not suggesting this is perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it worked well.

The biggest problem I see is that there is no challenge and no thought in the sections at a lot of trials. Nobody seems to want to lose marks anymore which I find is very odd seen as the event is called a trial. Would you expect to turn up for a round of golf if you are a newbie and go round on par or under par? No you wouldn't so why should it happen at trials! It should be a challenge but shouldn't be dangerous at all. That's my opinion anyway!

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One of the "obstacles" trials has to overcome is/are ego's. Many potential riders arrive from other disciplines with years of experience, and expect it to be of benefit ! The reality is that very little is transferable. 

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well I tried to like your post @b40rt but i'm not permitted to...

You are correct, trials is much more complex than many people realise until they try it.

Edited by baldilocks
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talked to a couple of friends, good riders who trial pretty regularly and both mentioned one thing that makes them stay away from some trials is lack of observers. They would rather travel further or miss an event rather than "self" observing.

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8 hours ago, dadof2 said:

talked to a couple of friends, good riders who trial pretty regularly and both mentioned one thing that makes them stay away from some trials is lack of observers. They would rather travel further or miss an event rather than "self" observing.

And how often do they observe?

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I would be ecstatic if I cleaned even a single section on my first trial. To be honest I would just want to finish and not destroy the bike, that will do me fine.

Fatigue will probably be my main enemy. I'm reasonably strong but I'm not that fit, and I reckon after a few sections I would be feeling it, especially if I drop the bike a few times.

I'd certainly have no expectations around how many marks I would drop, I have no baseline to compare to!

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Something that has become very popular at enduro is a shorter than normal race and a practice after. This could be done at trials, 2 laps "real trial" with a time limit of say 2 hours then a 2 hour practice to try any section you like, practice your favourite section from your own route, try some harder ones, whatever you fancy, no scores taken just have a play. Its a good way of getting the riders who only like practice to do a proper event. There are loads of people out practicing every week who never do Trials.

Edited by lennie
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On 05/09/2017 at 10:29 AM, lopez said:

I would be ecstatic if I cleaned even a single section on my first trial. To be honest I would just want to finish and not destroy the bike, that will do me fine.

Fatigue will probably be my main enemy. I'm reasonably strong but I'm not that fit, and I reckon after a few sections I would be feeling it, especially if I drop the bike a few times.

I'd certainly have no expectations around how many marks I would drop, I have no baseline to compare to!

At some point in the day after getting over nerves and before suffering fatigue you'll probably find at least one section you can clean. If you'd be ecstatic with that then my advice would be to go with that target and leave happy, don't push yourself too hard to finish, the odd clean is easier than finishing.

Edited by totty79
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12 hours ago, suzuki250 said:

And how often do they observe?

They only observe very occasionally, but their family members (wives, father, daughters) used to observe frequently until they got fed up of stop / no stop abuse.

 

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When I started trials entries were much larger than today. Trials were generally much longer even though the number of sections was about the same. Many trials lasted from between 9 and 10 in the morning until 15:30 or even after 17:00. You felt as if you had ha a worthwhile day out. In the last few years I have been to quite a number of trials or 30 to 40 sections on very short courses. The trial only lasts about 2 to 3 hours, hardly worth travelling too. May as well have a decent practice session instead. 

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9 hours ago, dadof2 said:

When I started trials entries were much larger than today. Trials were generally much longer even though the number of sections was about the same. Many trials lasted from between 9 and 10 in the morning until 15:30 or even after 17:00. You felt as if you had ha a worthwhile day out. In the last few years I have been to quite a number of trials or 30 to 40 sections on very short courses. The trial only lasts about 2 to 3 hours, hardly worth travelling too. May as well have a decent practice session instead. 

A 40 section trial that lasts 2 hours? where?

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