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dan williams

‘18 popping out of gear

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On 7/21/2019 at 10:31 PM, lineaway said:

 Yeah, you were closer with the Beta clutch fix.(You got 166 thousand views!) Which still is not the problem. It is clutch drag that can be fixed with the proper shims. Cheap, under ten dollars and less than 20 minutes work. You have less than a dozen guys interested in the NEW FIX.

Me takes the view count as evidence there are a lot more dragging clutches out there than bikes jumping out of gear in the Beta world.  ?

But hey, solving a problem is only a small part of the purpose of tinkering.  It is recreational and entertaining.  The process is it's own reward.  Results are secondary.  

Hell, anyone can adjust their clutch free play properly, bleed their clutch properly, and install shims.  This is creativity, art, innovation, engineering, and ingenuity at it's finest. 

Good on ya Dan for going down this road.  Solving problems by following the advice of others, hell, anyone can do that!

?

 

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On 7/21/2019 at 11:01 AM, dan williams said:

Still experimenting but the 13mm bearing seems to work well with the stock cam. (As long as the idiot installing it uses loctite on the screws) I have the 14mm bearing in now with the custom cam and it’s really good. I will try the 16mm bearing with the reverse indexer next time I get around to cracking it open.

Unfortunately unlike the clutch fix this one requires some parts swapping.

IIRC, the original bearing diameter was 13 mm.  Is that correct?

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Haven’t updated in a while. Too busy. The “final” iteration is now in the bike. Reverse 16mm bearing with custom cam. Several events were run with 14mm bearing with custom indexer/custom cam on shortened pivot pin. Bike hasn’t popped out in months. I’ll make some of these available in a bit. The hot setup with the stock cam appears to be the 13mm bearing on the custom indexer with the shortened pin. Or the 13mm bearing with the reversed indexer.

EDIT: With the stock cam before 2019 (or 2018 factory) as they have different cams which may require the 16mm bearing. Anxiously awaiting feedback from the Beta beta tester with a 2019.

Edited by dan williams
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Rode yesterday. It’s good. Bike shifts easily. Stays in gear. Is still a pain to find neutral but no worse than stock. I think I’m done. ?

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 It happened. Yesterday while out working on sections, I shifted up to second and went up a large rock wall and just after my rear tire cleared the top. Damn thing popped into nuetral while I was still on a steep hill and down I went. I blame it on a lazy shift. Worse thing I knew it was a poor shift.

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On 12/4/2018 at 1:07 PM, lineaway said:

 You have one guy talking about and two want to be`s chiming in. I have never heard anyone in my club ever mention it. I have ridden about 40 events on my 2016 and it never has. I did miss a shift once this year!

Lets put this into context.  I had a Beta 250 Techno - one of the last ones made.  That NEVER jumped out of gear. 

My Brand new 2014 Beta Evo 250 would sometimes jump out of 1st or 2nd gear mid section, without me touching the gear lever.  I kept it for a year.  I would have ridden around 50 trial competitions and lost marks in SOME of them due to jumping out of gear.  Asking around I discovered that lots of people had experienced their Beta jumping out of gear - some more than others - a lot more.

Fed up with Betas jumping out of gear I changed to Sherco.  I have now had two Shercos.  Neither have EVER jumped out of gear - not even once.

Nothing to do with trials, but I also had a Honda Goldwing GL 1800 for 7 years.  Jumping out of gear under hard acceleration was a known fault with them and would sometimes result in a wrecked gearbox.  The thinking was that the gearbox was too fragile for the huge amount of torque produced by the 1800 cc flat six motor.

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 The following weekend mid section, first loop of a two day event it happened again. This time disaster struck while going up a steep rocky climb. The bike went into nuetral, I started to bail and it shifted into second and launched 6 feet into the air. First time I have ever bent fat bars. Ruined my weekend as no one had a decent pair of bars available. I did replace the bars, but the so called Buffalo bend bars are not even close to the low Renthal bend.

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Looks like I’ll have more time to play with this stuff. Just got made redundant. Can’t complain though. It was a good 37 year run.

Edited by dan williams

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On 11/22/2019 at 7:20 AM, dan williams said:

Looks like I’ll have more time to play with this stuff. Just got made redundant. Can’t complain though. It was a good 37 year run.

Congrats!!!!! Retirement is great!

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Hey all.....

I had some 1st gear jump outs into neutral with my 2019 Factory Beta 250.

Before I went into the guts of the gear box work to solve the problem I did a simple experiment out side the gear box.

I changed the gear shifter to the shorter one offered by Beta.

Presto no 1st gear jump outs anymore.

Did this solve the initial cause or just camouflage it?

Either way it is telling me something...

The long stock gear shifter affords a longer lever bouncing effect exposed to more things touching hitting it???

Not saying that is the issue, however that little bit of extra length does have to move up and down as it re-acts to jumping off and up rocks etc and if the gear box drum and pawl is dodgy to begin with the longer fulcrem lever won't help the issue.

I would say that 90% of the Beta riders I see out there have their stock gear shifter set way to low.

The gear shifter should be equal to or covering the proud standoff Beta name on the cover.  

A shorter shifter makes for easier up shifting and more positive gear engagement, the shorter shifter takes more effort to travel in given direction with less movement a longer gear shifter is easier movement but with more travel and more  potential over shooting a selected gear. 

BillyT ?

The Shorter Beta gear shifter.

 

Screen Shot 2019-12-17 at 9.08.48 PM.png

Edited by billyt

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You are probably correct on this Billy. As when I bent my bars, I swear I felt my toes hit my lever. By the way, I have always ran my lever with no tip. So it is barely a stub sticking up.

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I considered this.The problem is my bike was popping out of first and second into neutral. That it usually occurred when I bounced the bike (intentionally or unintentionally) started me toward the shifter but I came to realize it wasn't synchronous with just a bounce but a bounce that unloaded the transmission. I'm sure there are nuances that I'm missing. The other thing that pushed me away from the lever being the root cause is it takes (or should) a fairly decent amount of force to roll that bearing up the cam slope far enough to de-index the thing. More than is likely to be generated by that light weight shifter just bouncing on the pegs in my novice sections.Third was that my bike was the best shifting Beta I've owned until about six months in. Then it started getting funky. First the occasional pop into neutral and progressing to two-three times per event. Really rattled me. So far with the latest revision of the mod I have half a season of riding on the bike with the custom cam and reverse cam indexer and it is still working as it should. I know when I do a crappy shift and now I can hear and feel the gearbox snap into gear after a split second. Just using the indexer with the proper bearing stopped it from popping out but the slightly steeper cam with flats on top has just changed the feel to what is expected from a Japanese street bike. I'll tear it down in spring just to make sure it is not wearing abnormally or anything weird is happening like the pins backing out of the cam but to be honest it's so good right now I don't really want to mess with it any further. Without evidence to the contrary I'm still sticking with the crappy, oversized OEM bearing,  under-sprung indexer as the root cause.

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