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Toby Martyn

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20 minutes ago, faussy said:

Thats not the point either! The point is the observer chose to give him a five (whether this is deemed correct or not is irrelevant) and subsequently changed his mind. If he changed his mind because of outside influence (whether that be from the crowd/riders or other officals) then that is whats contestable, and ultimately what the FIM are looking into. 

We shouldnt be arguing whether it was a 5 or not, we would end up arguing every ride in every trial. What we should be arguing is, should an observers decision ever be changed or overturned, and via what means can it be changed. If the observer has a quick reflection and goes, no i made a mistake, it should have been a clean then ok, but if he is unfairly forced to change his decision then this is foul play.

Andy also touched on a point. While the live scoring is great for most instances, would this have happened if the spectators didnt know the exact scores. Did the live scoring contribute to this? Should live scoring be removed? I think the pros outweigh the cons on this, but it introduces another dynamic. Also, should the observers be allowed to follow the live scoring? Should the riders? Can a rider change his style knowing the current results?

Agree, just meaning to point out that the stop might be contestable, but hitting a marker is a very distinct fail. 👍

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3 hours ago, b40rt said:

I appreciate your honest answer. Not sure where this count to three came from, why not two, or four ? Is it 1 2 3, or onne.twooo. threeee?

I actually agree that the rules should be changed for "modern" trials, but fairly sure it would cause as many problems as it solves.

It was a randomly selected amount of time that 'feels' right ;) Not much more to it than that. Basically, it seems like observers have been put in this position of being the arbiter of what's a stop and what isn't, when no one can really seem to agree, regardless of what the rules say. So I'd prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to the rider and give a solid grace period before nailing him for a stop.

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Just to shed a little more light on the subject. The observer had given a 5 so whether or not it was the correct decision is irrelevant. He had been consistent all day. The 'outside influence' that the sport7 statement mentioned wasn't just the crowd but also Gratta's main sponsor (who is Italian) and also a big sponsor of the trials park where the event was held. After a discussion with him the observer changed his decision to a 0. A few points to note: sport7 cant change the decision as they are just the promoter. The main FIM guy (Race Director I think is his title) was not at the event due to a family bereavement. From personal experience I know he wouldn't have let this happen.

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14 minutes ago, tshock250 said:

Which is why it should be 1 Mark for a stop.

Huh... never really heard that offered up, but it's not a bad idea. The problem is that without a time limit in the section, once you're on a 3, presumably you could then stop for eternity.

Edited by heffergm
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3 hours ago, bumpy_ltd said:

Just to shed a little more light on the subject. The observer had given a 5 so whether or not it was the correct decision is irrelevant. He had been consistent all day. The 'outside influence' that the sport7 statement mentioned wasn't just the crowd but also Gratta's main sponsor (who is Italian) and also a big sponsor of the trials park where the event was held. After a discussion with him the observer changed his decision to a 0. A few points to note: sport7 cant change the decision as they are just the promoter. The main FIM guy (Race Director I think is his title) was not at the event due to a family bereavement. From personal experience I know he wouldn't have let this happen.

If this is true, or even remotely true, i think ive heard enough :lol:

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After researching this a little deeper, this is really ugly. Last section, last event of the year. This stinks on all levels.   

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Anyone with an ounce of self respect could never accept this as a genuine victory. In his heart the Italian will know he got the title by ,well lets be blunt and say cheating.

He's going to be really popular next season if he has the cheek to show up.

As for the rules my take is the bikes have developed too far and we need to limit them , for example  we still run the same  tyre width/depth as my dad did on his gold star BSA in the 50s it's nonsense.   

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2 hours ago, breagh said:

Anyone with an ounce of self respect could never accept this as a genuine victory. In his heart the Italian will know he got the title by ,well lets be blunt and say cheating.

He's going to be really popular next season if he has the cheek to show up.

As for the rules my take is the bikes have developed too far and we need to limit them , for example  we still run the same  tyre width/depth as my dad did on his gold star BSA in the 50s it's nonsense.   

What a strange post?! Firstly, grattarola isn't involved in this, he has done no wrong except ride his socks off.

The incident involves the observer when Marcelli is riding the section.

Second, you are calling for the bikes to be restricted, and in same sentence complain that the bikes are being restricted by the tyre regulations??

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23 minutes ago, tshock250 said:

 

Second, you are calling for the bikes to be restricted, and in same sentence complain that the bikes are being restricted by the tyre regulations??

I think breagh is suggesting that tyres should be smaller, Sammy Miller also suggested this ?

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47 minutes ago, b40rt said:

I think breagh is suggesting that tyres should be smaller, Sammy Miller also suggested this ?

What’s the point of that? 

It’s frustrating whenever this ‘restrict the bikes’ notion comes up. Do we want future generations of riders to look at trials as an old fashioned sport with no wow factor to inspire them to pursue it?

What has bike development got to do with this situation in any way??

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5 hours ago, breagh said:

As for the rules my take is the bikes have developed too far and we need to limit them , for example  we still run the same  tyre width/depth as my dad did on his gold star BSA in the 50s it's nonsense.  

The bike has to be RIDDEN  by someone ,and if that someone (professional) spends 24/7 training  it will be taken to its limit no matter what

2 hours ago, worlez said:

Do we want future generations of riders to look at trials as an old fashioned sport with no wow factor to inspire them to pursue it?

please tell us how ? TRIALS is old fashioned  not changed from day 1 ride between set of flags and lose marks THE END ! anything other then its not trials is it  ,£ CASH $ theres your wow factor were will that come from ? This is were the whole problem is with world trials you are talking not about sport any more but someones wage /job

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Ummm... while the rules, more or less, might be the same, the riding has most certainly changed. I'm not particularly interested in seeing it revert. 

In any event, as to the original topic, I hold Grattarola blameless. From all accounts he did all he could that day, which was win, and I haven't seen it suggeted that his score was anything other than totally above board. As to the rest of what happened, it's a shame. Hopefully it gets sorted in some fashion.

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