Water in oil...

[Tomsmith1992]

Hi all. 

I have read alot about beta getting water in oil and why and how to fix...my oil is super cloudy and is actually starting to act like a glue rather than an oil! Really bad sticking clutch...anyway...I have taken off the small outer cover (pics attached) and I was expecting to see lots of corrosion or gunk.

The case looks almost new and the seal looks water tight? 

I have tried to get the seal out, so I can check the wear on the shaft, but to no avail! Does anyone have any good tips and tricks to getting it out??

Also if it's not the seal or shaft can water be getting into oil from anywhere else?

Thanks in advance for the help!!

[oni nou]

26 minutes ago, Tomsmith1992 said:

Hi all. 

I have read alot about beta getting water in oil and why and how to fix...my oil is super cloudy and is actually starting to act like a glue rather than an oil! Really bad sticking clutch...anyway...I have taken off the small outer cover (pics attached) and I was expecting to see lots of corrosion or gunk.

The case looks almost new and the seal looks water tight? 

I have tried to get the seal out, so I can check the wear on the shaft, but to no avail! Does anyone have any good tips and tricks to getting it out??

Also if it's not the seal or shaft can water be getting into oil from anywhere else?

Thanks in advance for the help!!

Drain the oil and then take the clutch cover off and acess the water pump drive gear and spindle from the inside of the case for removal and seal fitting etc......If you lay the bike on its side when you take the cover off  you will not get oil dribbling everywhere,

Edited September 30, 2018 by oni nou

[Tomsmith1992]

Ok cheers. I took the clutch cover and plates off but can't see anymore...do I have to take the basket thingy out aswell? 

[oni nou]

23 minutes ago, Tomsmith1992 said:

Ok cheers. I took the clutch cover and plates off but can't see anymore...do I have to take the basket thingy out aswell? 

The bits you want are on the inside of the casing  opposite where the impeller is ...you do not need to take the clutch apart.

You have confused the clutch pressure plate with the clutch cover ..the outside casing that keeps the oil in the clutch area.

Edited September 30, 2018 by oni nou

[section swept 3 Trials Bikes]

You may also have a cylinder head gasket leak allowing oil into the coolant. This would show up by forcing coolant out of the radiator due to leaking engine compression pressurising the cooling system. The water pump shaft is poorly supported and will eventually wear the seal oval. The seals in your pictures look to be worn, but that could just be my opinion, it’s never the same when you can see the real thing in front of you. Do away with the pump and shaft, get the shaft hole welded up and fit an electric water pump which fits in the hose, outside of the engine, problem solved.?

[feetupfun]

There are two clutch covers. The outer one that you have removed is for working on just the clutch. The bigger cover surrounding that cover is the one you need to remove to work on the water pump drive shaft.

[feetupfun]

2 minutes ago, section swept said:

You may also have a cylinder head gasket leak allowing oil into the coolant. This would show up by forcing coolant out of the radiator due to leaking engine compression pressurising the cooling system. The water pump shaft is poorly supported and will eventually wear the seal oval. The seals in your pictures look to be worn, but that could just be my opinion, it’s never the same when you can see the real thing in front of you. Do away with the pump and shaft, get the shaft hole welded up and fit an electric water pump which fits in the hose, outside of the engine, problem solved.?

The symptom is water in the gearbox oil. A head gasket leak cannot cause this

[feetupfun]

Another way for water to get into the gearbox oil is by riding through water

[Tomsmith1992]

Great thank you. I don't think it's cylinder head as there is no loss of compression.

To take the second cover off is it simply a case of removing the 6 or 7 bolts around the darker grey case and pulling? 

 

[section swept 3 Trials Bikes]

9 hours ago, feetupfun said:

The symptom is water in the gearbox oil. A head gasket leak cannot cause this

Stupid place for a water pump anyway. Poor design.

Edited October 1, 2018 by section swept

[feetupfun]

5 hours ago, Tomsmith1992 said:

Great thank you. I don't think it's cylinder head as there is no loss of compression.

To take the second cover off is it simply a case of removing the 6 or 7 bolts around the darker grey case and pulling? 

 

Remove all the screws. Remove the kickstart lever and whatever else might be in the way. Lay the bike over on its right hand side with the cover you are about to take off being parallel with the floor. Carefully ease the cover up a tiny bit and make sure that the gasket stays on one surface or the other, to avoid ripping it. That way you might be able to resuse the gasket. Once the gasket is sorted, remove the cover fully. Oil will drip off it.

[Tomsmith1992]

1 hour ago, feetupfun said:

Remove all the screws. Remove the kickstart lever and whatever else might be in the way. Lay the bike over on its right hand side with the cover you are about to take off being parallel with the floor. Carefully ease the cover up a tiny bit and make sure that the gasket stays on one surface or the other, to avoid ripping it. That way you might be able to resuse the gasket. Once the gasket is sorted, remove the cover fully. Oil will drip off it.

I have tried this but the case doesn't lift....should it lift relatively easily? 

I think someone may have used some gasket stuff which is holding it in place? 

Will I do much harm by using lots of force? 

Thank you! All advice is great...again! 

[oni nou]

8 hours ago, Tomsmith1992 said:

I have tried this but the case doesn't lift....should it lift relatively easily? 

I think someone may have used some gasket stuff which is holding it in place? 

Will I do much harm by using lots of force? 

Thank you! All advice is great...again! 

Tap it lightly all the way around the outside with a rubber mallet or a block of wood .....it is stuck to the gasket .....DO NOT pry it off with a screw driver .....warming the outer casing only with a hair drier on max heat or a heat gun may help ..but usually just tapping it will move it.......gently though  and tap it where the screws go through the casing its stronger there

[feetupfun]

20 hours ago, Tomsmith1992 said:

I have tried this but the case doesn't lift....should it lift relatively easily? 

I think someone may have used some gasket stuff which is holding it in place? 

Will I do much harm by using lots of force? 

Thank you! All advice is great...again! 

Yes it's very easy to break a cover like that one.

If it does have some sort of sealant sticking it on, then you can try heating the cover where the gasket sits before trying to move it.

This could end up very messy, but you could try using a TINY whiff of compressed air via the vent hose. Be ready for flying pieces of clutch cover if you over-do it with the compressed air.

A safer but even messier version of this would be to stand the bike back up, completely fill the gearbox with oil and then use a (hand-powered) oil transfer pump to generate a bit of pressure.

[Tomsmith1992]

22 hours ago, oni nou said:

Tap it lightly all the way around the outside with a rubber mallet or a block of wood .....it is stuck to the gasket .....DO NOT pry it off with a screw driver .....warming the outer casing only with a hair drier on max heat or a heat gun may help ..but usually just tapping it will move it.......gently though  and tap it where the screws go through the casing its stronger there

Cheers for this. The gentle tapping of a block of wood seems to have loosened it up nicely! 

However the bottom rear of the cover in the picture won't come free at all. Is it because of the rubber it is sitting on? Seems to be stopping it from moving? Or just needs more taps. 

Cheers