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the dabster

New value for money GasGas

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Hey dabster 

I was referring to the inability to change a bike for a £1000 / £1200 these days is across the board.

Also the condition of a 6 / 12 month old bike doesn’t seem to have much affect on its resale. Some 6 month old bikes can look almost destroyed yet an absolute mint condition hardly used example fetches only a couple of hundred pounds more. 

But hey ho, suppose we don’t buy and ride these bikes to save money, just depends how much fun we’re having and if it justifies the money to change each year. Maybe we’ll see the guys like myself who change without fail evey 12 months starting to keep the bikes much longer. 

 

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21 minutes ago, duggan said:

Hey dabster 

I was referring to the inability to change a bike for a £1000 / £1200 these days is across the board.

Also the condition of a 6 / 12 month old bike doesn’t seem to have much affect on its resale. Some 6 month old bikes can look almost destroyed yet an absolute mint condition hardly used example fetches only a couple of hundred pounds more. 

But hey ho, suppose we don’t buy and ride these bikes to save money, just depends how much fun we’re having and if it justifies the money to change each year. Maybe we’ll see the guys like myself who change without fail evey 12 months starting to keep the bikes much longer. 

 

Yeah, your right on both points.  It's a shame because the people who work in these factories and the dealers and all the off spin of trials, have bills to pay and we should all encourage every aspect of this great pastime and sport, doing what we can to ensure it continues to thrive.  I'm disappointed with this because I am financially disadvantaged for buying a certain brand by those meant to be promoting that brand!

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I want to change every year I just need to be more astute about it now and definitely select a make that actually considers the customer properly. 

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34 minutes ago, the dabster said:

I want to change every year I just need to be more astute about it now and definitely select a make that actually considers the customer properly. 

Im not at all sure what you are saying is true countrywide, and i cant see all makes worth more than Gas Gas?

Unless you have done a survey of all makes all versions and ccs its just anecdotal?

 

I know the racing (standard) doesnt hold its value like the GP, and certainly just last week a registered 250 '18 sold for 4300.

 

Maybe scotland is different?

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28 minutes ago, nigel dabster said:

Im not at all sure what you are saying is true countrywide, and i cant see all makes worth more than Gas Gas?

Unless you have done a survey of all makes all versions and ccs its just anecdotal?

 

I know the racing (standard) doesnt hold its value like the GP, and certainly just last week a registered 250 '18 sold for 4300.

 

Maybe scotland is different?

I don't need to do a survey my personal experience illustrates things perfectly.  I buy an 18 racing for £6399 in july, go to upgrade this week and told by a dealer my trade value is £3500 due to the fact the importer has discounted his remaining stock of brand new 18 models to circa 5K. Dealer says why would I give you any more, I can't sell it because the importer has undermined the market!  Look at the disparity in the figures that has created. The amount of discount he is offering to get rid of stock has proportionally impacted the figure I can reasonably expect to achieve as a trade in. It's simple economics or as the experts define it, the science of self interest!

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The mistake must be with the Gasgas importer for bringing in too much stock, to be still trying to move 18's when the 19's came out last year shows something has gone wrong.

If you have only been offered £3500 for your bike I would also suggest the dealer is trying to make too much out of it as all the 18's I have seen are well over £4000 really £4500.

Suggest you try another dealer or is geography against you ?

 

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So are you saying the importer is selling 2018 bikes to customers for circa 5k or selling them to the dealers for that? My understanding is that dealers typically make about $1k  and importer makes about the same so at the end of the year if they decide to dump their bikes without making any profit between the 2 of have lots of room to move.. good for people who don't mind having a year old bike... not great for trade in value if not.

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I was a bit wary when they did away with the std a couple of years back. Now the racing is the std model and the gp the new racing, except the racing is still the racing price and the gp is even more.

Next they will to do away with the racing and bring out a busto rep at 8k

Edited by faussy

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6 minutes ago, collyolly said:

The mistake must be with the Gasgas importer for bringing in too much stock, to be still trying to move 18's when the 19's came out last year shows something has gone wrong.

If you have only been offered £3500 for your bike I would also suggest the dealer is trying to make too much out of it as all the 18's I have seen are well over £4000 really £4500.

Suggest you try another dealer or is geography against you ?

 

You are spot on with your observations on both counts.  I don't want to get caught up in a slagging match, It is a greenlight for unscrupulous dealers and the rot has been started by the importer that's all I'm saying.  Don't want to go any further now and personalise it but do feel the need to say something about dealers because I have inadvertently identified one specifically.  My local dealer is not involved and for the avoidance of confusion has always been very straight forward and fair.  I have spoken to BVM about a deal and would commend them to anyone. Lawrence was very honest and possibly more than fair in his price given the fact he would have to sell the trade in, IMHO he is someone the buying public could have absolute confidence in. It has been just one dealer that lowballed and they will remain anonymous.  Others will use it and who can blame them.  The percentage lost on goods bought new is reasonably predictable but when the gross figure of a new unit changes at the end of the production year then the deficit created has to be sucked up by someone and its hardly fair it's the customer.

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1 hour ago, michael_t said:

So are you saying the importer is selling 2018 bikes to customers for circa 5k or selling them to the dealers for that? 

Selling them to Joe public, 5k, including VAT

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7 minutes ago, faussy said:

Selling them to Joe public, 5k, including VAT

So 4166 net.  So the trade in is about - err...  three and half grand.

It is generally accepted with most motor vehicles that the bulk of depreciation is the first owner.  I am sure that the value would be more in a private sale - the dealer has to make a margin on the trade in as well as the new bike.  It seems a bit harsh but I don't think there has ever been a time when that was not the case.

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1 hour ago, ChrisCH said:

It seems a bit harsh but I don't think there has ever been a time when that was not the case.

It definitely hasn't! Bikes never depreciated over 20% by just sitting in the showroom for a year!

Edited by faussy
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1 hour ago, ChrisCH said:

So 4166 net.  So the trade in is about - err...  three and half grand.

It is generally accepted with most motor vehicles that the bulk of depreciation is the first owner.  I am sure that the value would be more in a private sale - the dealer has to make a margin on the trade in as well as the new bike.  It seems a bit harsh but I don't think there has ever been a time when that was not the case.

When someone buys a new bike at £6300 and keeps it six months and then wants to sell, he wants the trade in price to be based on the £6300 he paid not a dynamic sliding scale whereby  the residual value is all of a sudden £5000. It's profoundly unfair.  I paid 6200 for a TRS last year and traded it for 5K for the racing I have now. If I bought a factory Beta last July at 6500 I would hope for a market value of cica 4500 because  J Lampkin isn't trying to punt any new ones at 5k and therefor my anticipated trade value has not been undermined.  This has never been the case for the last ten bikes I have bought and sold annually.

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12 minutes ago, faussy said:

It definitely hasn't! Bikes never depreciated over 20% by just sitting in the showroom for a year!

I can't imagine a dealer that would stay in business letting a bike sit there that long.  Perhaps things are more time sensitive than they were 10-15 years ago but it has always been the case that the new model launch sees a big drop in the price of the old one.  It hasn't depreciated, it was overpriced on day one.  It is simply that the dealer can get a better margin on the "new" model from those who absolutely must have the newest, latest thing at any cost.  In the 80s there was a big thing about discounting new bikes and a lot of dealers wouldn't put their price in the adverts as they would have lost the franchise.  I can't remember the company but there was a big outfit in Doncaster that had that business model.  To be fair that was all road bikes and not trials.

Also remember that there is VAT on a new bike so the dealer is getting 16% less than the headline figure.  When you sell it second-hand the government have already had their cut.

Mountainbikes certainly can be 20% cheaper for last year's model.  My budget doesn't run to new in trials bikes...

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