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markbxr400

4T Coolant questions

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1. I've noticed that my 2016 EVO 300 4T burps coolant, to the point I'm having to add coolant almost every ride.  I'll go through the circuit closely to make sure it's coming out of the cap overflow line, but a quick look seems to indicate that's where it's coming from.  I rejetted the bike for my altitude, and it seems to run very well.  The cooling fan seems to operate normally (comes on frequently, but doesn't run all of the time).

Do any others of you experience anything similar? 

2. I've read where some Betas seem to have eaten the water pump impellers.  So I ordered a new impeller, gasket, water seal and circle in order to take it apart and make sure my pump is intact.  While ordering parts, I went looking for the coolant specified in the manual (Liquid Moly RAF12 Plus), which I've been unable to locate in the US.  It seems the key elements of the coolant are that it's pre-mixed, ethylene glycol based, free from amines, nitrites, phosphates and silicate for aluminum engines. 

The nearest coolant I can find that seems to fit the bill is Motorex M3.0.  Many others (MOTUL M5.0 that I used in my Husky, and Motul Motocool Expert that my Beta XTrainer calls for) don't say that they are free of silicates.

Anyone have any recommendations for the proper coolant for this bike that can be somewhat relatively easy to locate in the US?

Many thanks for any help.

Edited by markbxr400

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If there is not enough air space when you put the cap on, the pressure relief device will let out some coolant as the coolant heats up and expands. As it cools, the vacuum relief device will let some air in. If you leave it at that, you shouldn't lose any more coolant

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My 2012 300 4T doesn't use a drop but the previous owner did have some overheating/boiling over type problems. 

He upgraded the impellor and filled with waterless coolant and now completely cured. The water pump cover has an alloy spacer to accommodate the bigger impellor.

I use a zip tie as a dip stick to check height but in 8 months it hasn't used any.

I am often surprised how infrequently the cooling fan comes on and how short a time it runs for but all is well so be it despite the bike getting plenty of work in sections and occasionally ending up upside down!

Edited by fantic240motor

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Fantic240motor what type of impeller upgrade did you get?  Have seen something for a 2T but not a 4T.

Mark, check your fan is running the right way round (should draw air front to back).  When I first got my 4T it spilled coolant and I found the fan had been wired incorrectly so it pushed air the wrong way.  I solved by switching the wires over in the connector under the side panel.

Now never loses a drop and I use a pretty standard coolant mixture.

Also might want to check the pump shaft whilst the pump is apart.  Mine had scoring round the seals when I took it apart.

 

Edited by stu109

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What level are you filling it to?  Should be at the top of the matrix plus a wee bit.  If you fill it "full" then it will burp out to reach correct level.  Hot coolant expands.

Edited by 2stroke4stroke

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19 hours ago, markbxr400 said:

1. I've noticed that my 2016 EVO 300 4T burps coolant, to the point I'm having to add coolant almost every ride.  I'll go through the circuit closely to make sure it's coming out of the cap overflow line, but a quick look seems to indicate that's where it's coming from.  I rejetted the bike for my altitude, and it seems to run very well.  The cooling fan seems to operate normally (comes on frequently, but doesn't run all of the time).

Do any others of you experience anything similar? 

2. I've read where some Betas seem to have eaten the water pump impellers.  So I ordered a new impeller, gasket, water seal and circle in order to take it apart and make sure my pump is intact.  While ordering parts, I went looking for the coolant specified in the manual (Liquid Moly RAF12 Plus), which I've been unable to locate in the US.  It seems the key elements of the coolant are that it's pre-mixed, ethylene glycol based, free from amines, nitrites, phosphates and silicate for aluminum engines. 

The nearest coolant I can find that seems to fit the bill is Motorex M3.0.  Many others (MOTUL M5.0 that I used in my Husky, and Motul Motocool Expert that my Beta XTrainer calls for) don't say that they are free of silicates.

Anyone have any recommendations for the proper coolant for this bike that can be somewhat relatively easy to locate in the US?

Many thanks for any help.

Can you get Putoline in America? Coolant NF is the one they recommend for the Evo 4T. To quote them "Coolant NF is a ready-to-use, organic coolant. Anti-corrosion additives provide excellent protection for all metals found in engines, including aluminium and magnesium. The product provides frost protection down to -38°C."

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52 minutes ago, rcgods said:

Can you get Putoline in America? Coolant NF is the one they recommend for the Evo 4T. To quote them "Coolant NF is a ready-to-use, organic coolant. Anti-corrosion additives provide excellent protection for all metals found in engines, including aluminium and magnesium. The product provides frost protection down to -38°C."

Thanks, I did a search, and it looks like I would have to order from the UK.  I think I'll either go with the Motorex M3.0, which appears to be very similar to the LiquidMoly, or the Evans waterless.  Would like to see if I can find one common coolant to use in all my water-cooled bikes that I can get locally.

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9 hours ago, stu109 said:

Fantic240motor what type of impeller upgrade did you get?  Have seen something for a 2T but not a 4T.

Mark, check your fan is running the right way round (should draw air front to back).  When I first got my 4T it spilled coolant and I found the fan had been wired incorrectly so it pushed air the wrong way.  I solved by switching the wires over in the connector under the side panel.

Now never loses a drop and I use a pretty standard coolant mixture.

Also might want to check the pump shaft whilst the pump is apart.  Mine had scoring round the seals when I took it apart.

 

That's a good idea on the fan.  I haven't ever the fan checked direction.

I'd also be interested in more info on the impeller upgrade.  Only one Ive seen was the Jitsie for the 2Ts.  Looks like the only issue is the spacer casting not having the extra rectangular port on the 4T.

I may also be overfilling as suggested by feetupfun and 2T4T above.  I usually raise the bike on a stand with the rear tire on the ground and the front in the air, and then fill it until it overflows.  But . . . when I've checked it after a ride, I can't see any at all, and I'm having to add more than just what the filler neck will hold. 

Thanks! 

Edited by markbxr400

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I fill up till it overflows with the front wheel lifted.  I'm sure some comes out as it gets hot but after getting up to temp if it continues "burp coolant" its either getting to hot or the cooling system is not getting correctly pressurised.

Could also look at the simple things.  Is the radiator clear from debris, is the fan spinning at the correct speed, is the radiator cap OK?

There is a weep hole in the barrel near the pump.  This allows any coolant that gets past the first pump seal to escape without contaminating the oil.  Are you seeing anything dripping from here?

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I didn't fit the larger impeller the previous owner did. I will message him to ask him for more details on this as mentioned the 2t type are different. I tried to upload a picture but said it was too large ?

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I cleaned up the bike today, and

1. checked the level since the last ride - it is just below the top of the fins in the radiator,

2. ran it long enough to confirm the fan kicked on, and confirmed that it is spinning the correct direction, pulling air from front to rear,

3. checked hose connections, cap, etc for any sign of leakage, and didn't observe everything.  

Before cleaning, it's pretty apparent that the coolant stain originates from the cap vent drain hose which is short and ends right over the top of the fan housing. 

It was getting dark so I haven't had a chance to ride for a period to take a better look.  I have a group of riders coming by tomorrow so will have a chance to look at it further.  

Stu, I looked all over the pump housing and surrounding areas and couldn't see a weep hole.  Where should I be looking?

Also, looking at the pump housing, to appears the gasket that was sent doesn't cover the entire 4T pump outline, so I'm going to have to see if I can find the correct gasket before tearing into it.

I'll follow up if I find anything further of concern.

Thanks for all of your help!

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The weep hole is located at the base of the pump housing on the cylinder.  Probably obscured by the CDI unit.

As you are losing fluid from the cap overflow I think anything from the weep hole is not the source of your issue.

There is a drain bolt on the front of the cylinder it is best to keep this slack when refilling as it allows any air to be purged from the engine waterways.  Fill till fluid comes from the lose bolt then tighten, and complete the fill.

If system is full, pump, fan and thermostat are all OK then I would try a replacement rad cap.  Think they are the same on all EVOs so could borrow a known good one and see if it helps.

Is fan spinning at the correct speed (should be just a blur when running)?  I have seen some threads here when people are experiencing overheating due to slow fan caused by low voltage.

After that perhaps consider crud in the rad waterways (flush with a hose).  Blowing head gasket (although you would expect to see oil in the coolant with this).

Start with the cap!

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Just follow on from Stu109... My 2013 fan ran but was relatively slow.. Kept running once it was on and bike ran ok when i was riding it but it overheated in the garage... Turned out the fan voltage was low due to a short caused by corrosion in the fuel shut off soleniod.... I removed the soleniod and replaced it with a standard lever shut off. Bike does flood if it's upside down but a few kicks with full throttle and its running again.

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