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Good Bike Bad Bike, Good Gear Bad Gear..


Sam-Clark
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I'm just starting out in this sport and doing alot of reading, It seems to me (correct me if i'm wrong) that alot of people are hung up on having the best bike or the best gear as though it is going to improve performance ? I'd like to bet if you put a Toni Bou or a Dougie Lampkin on an ancient machine in the cheapest gear you can get would still massacre most. Thoughts ?

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 More like you could put them on any brand. Newer bikes really do work better. Gear does not matter. Though it is more rider than bike. But you chose the top for comparison.

Edited by lineaway
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I suppose what i'm trying to say is, from what ive seen so far, Really good Trials riders seem to go through a section with control grace and cat like balance. It stands out like a sore thumb, No amount of throwing money at the sport can make that happen. It seems to me its this ability that gets the rider clean through the section rather than what bike or gear he has. Theres a video on Youtube somewhere showing a modern day top trials rider messing about on a 80's Twinshock clearing things alot of people would be proud of on a modern bike.

Edited by Sam-Clark
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What I would say is everything on the bike has to work correctly,even TB wouldn't get far with a sticky throttle and no brakes.The twinshock you watched likely cost more to sort out. than a new bike so don't be fooled into thinking it's some original old gird.

 

 

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I think you have to ask yourself what you want to get out of riding a trials bike. Are you happy to play ride at the local practice area with your mates or do you intend to be the next Toni B. 

I first rode trials back in the late 1970's on bikes that were hard to start, heavy and had crap brakes and suspension. The so called twin shock and old stuff you may have seen on videos etc are heavily modified and nothing like the original machines. Some people I know literally spend thousands turning an old bike into a modern one just so they can ride the twin shock and pre 65 class. 

I made the mistake of buying a Honda TLR 200 thinking that TS was the way to go. I rode one trial on it and sold it the next day, it wasn't for me. I know there are loads of people out there who love old bikes and of course its personal preference but to my mind hydraulic clutches are better than cable ones, disc brakes are better than drum and water cooling is better than air.

If I was in your position I would buy the newest and most modern bike you can afford. Also don't buy a big engine machine like so many do only to find it rips your arms out on the first ride. Take a look on ebay etc and see how many 300cc bikes are for sale, there's a reason for it! 

As for riding gear you can get good second hand stuff on ebay etc. I bought matching Hebo top and pants for £50, you just have to look around. I think it goes without saying that you should buy the very best helmet you can afford. I have an Airoh, it's very light and comfortable and I know it will provide good protection should I be unlucky enough to part company with my bike. The Americans have a great expression, "if you have a 10 dollar head then buy a 10 dollar helmet" 

I appreciate this is quite a long post, just hope it helps you with your decision making process. I ride a 2018 Beta Evo 200 at clubman level and enjoy every minute. Whatever you decide have fun and welcome to the best motorcycle sport there is...... 

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27 minutes ago, scatman said:

I think you have to ask yourself what you want to get out of riding a trials bike. Are you happy to play ride at the local practice area with your mates or do you intend to be the next Toni B. 

I first rode trials back in the late 1970's on bikes that were hard to start, heavy and had crap brakes and suspension. The so called twin shock and old stuff you may have seen on videos etc are heavily modified and nothing like the original machines. Some people I know literally spend thousands turning an old bike into a modern one just so they can ride the twin shock and pre 65 class. 

I made the mistake of buying a Honda TLR 200 thinking that TS was the way to go. I rode one trial on it and sold it the next day, it wasn't for me. I know there are loads of people out there who love old bikes and of course its personal preference but to my mind hydraulic clutches are better than cable ones, disc brakes are better than drum and water cooling is better than air.

If I was in your position I would buy the newest and most modern bike you can afford. Also don't buy a big engine machine like so many do only to find it rips your arms out on the first ride. Take a look on ebay etc and see how many 300cc bikes are for sale, there's a reason for it! 

As for riding gear you can get good second hand stuff on ebay etc. I bought matching Hebo top and pants for £50, you just have to look around. I think it goes without saying that you should buy the very best helmet you can afford. I have an Airoh, it's very light and comfortable and I know it will provide good protection should I be unlucky enough to part company with my bike. The Americans have a great expression, "if you have a 10 dollar head then buy a 10 dollar helmet" 

I appreciate this is quite a long post, just hope it helps you with your decision making process. I ride a 2018 Beta Evo 200 at clubman level and enjoy every minute. Whatever you decide have fun and welcome to the best motorcycle sport there is...... 

Thanks for the great reply Scatman. I appreciate it. I intend to ride in Twinshock (as i have a passion for old bikes) at the lowest lvl there is lol. I too have the TLR200 1983 as it was the only bike i could find at reasonable money in good nick, runs super quiet (where i ride i dont want people to be disturbed) and most important of all road registered as i have also to use for nipping around on. Work etc. by the sounds of things and speaking to some specialist TLR guys for what i want to do just getting rid of the excess wieght should be ok for starters. and as i improve i can alter footrests and steering angle and do alsorts to the engine and shocks etc. so sounds like a lot of scope for improvement as and when i need it.

Edited by Sam-Clark
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Generally speaking its the bike not the rider, up to a point!  I have a brand new 19 TRS Gold and the bike is truly sensational in every conceivable area but there is a lad from my area who has actually won the Scottish Pre 65 and I have seen him ride the pre65 bike, suffice to say his skill level is such no matter how good the modern bike most of my peer group cant hold a light to him.  The equation probably alters slightly where technically the section suits the modern machine more and that aspect narrows the skill disparity but as said previously the machine matters less than the rider IMO.  In relation to riding gear Gearne boots are hard to beat as well as jitsie carbon helmets and hebo or clice clothing. 

Edited by the dabster
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There are a lot of things to like about a new bike that won't necessarily give you lower scores.

Easy to start
Reliable
Very light controls so you can ride much longer without tired, sore or cramping clutch and break fingers
Much better and more progressive suspension so less impact is transferred to your body
lighter so less work to recover from stuff ups

Some people just like old stuff though and this is a hobby after all..

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14 hours ago, collyolly said:

The Dabster, I Keep re-reading your first line and I have to disagree, it's the rider not the bike, you just cannot buy experiance.

Your quite right, I meant to write that the other way! If you look at the context of the thread you will see that's what I meant to say. it is indeed the rider.

Edited by the dabster
spelling error
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Ok, thanks guys for basically confirming my initial thoughts.

One final hypothetical question for a bit of fun, If Toni Bou entered an amatuer event somewhere near you on a tricked up 80's Twinshock against the locals on modern bikes how do you think he would fare ?

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There would be a lot of embarressed riders at that event, we have a rider that turns up to our centre trials on an old  Fantic and makes the intermediate route look like a main road so Mr Bou on a modified bike would be unstoppable on the sections we consider Expert.

 

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On 6/15/2019 at 11:57 AM, Sam-Clark said:

Thanks for the great reply Scatman. I appreciate it. I intend to ride in Twinshock (as i have a passion for old bikes) at the lowest lvl there is lol. I too have the TLR200 1983 as it was the only bike i could find at reasonable money in good nick, runs super quiet (where i ride i dont want people to be disturbed) and most important of all road registered as i have also to use for nipping around on. Work etc. by the sounds of things and speaking to some specialist TLR guys for what i want to do just getting rid of the excess wieght should be ok for starters. and as i improve i can alter footrests and steering angle and do alsorts to the engine and shocks etc. so sounds like a lot of scope for improvement as and when i need it.

One small note of caution. I have seen it said that modern tyres (Michelin/IRC/Dunlop) last about 150 miles on the road. That’s not far if you’re planning on pottering to work on you TLR200. Of course running higher pressures should improve life somewhat. Pirelli’s are supposed to be more durable but not competitive.

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