b40rt Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 35 minutes ago, triangle said: I have observed at world rounds and enforced the rules consistently and fairly (the key word for all observing is consistent) and guess what - we got a complete barrage of abuse for sticking to the rules. One of the team even got a helmet thrown at him by one of the minders and a complete barrage of swearing Maybe we need an observer's boycott for behaviour such as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangle Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Just now, b40rt said: Maybe we need an observer's boycott for behaviour such as above. I think some observers unfortunately would have backed down to the offenders but we didn't. We all agreed that it was an embarrassment to the sport and it should have led to a ban. We did get abused by quite a few riders but this was the worst instance. I have seen riders pressurising observers in club trials etc and it really is not on. No wonder there is a shortage of observers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 41 minutes ago, triangle said: I think some observers unfortunately would have backed down to the offenders but we didn't. We all agreed that it was an embarrassment to the sport and it should have led to a ban. We did get abused by quite a few riders but this was the worst instance. I have seen riders pressurising observers in club trials etc and it really is not on. No wonder there is a shortage of observers. At the very least I would think they should have received a points penalty for the helmet... I would like to have seen an extra 10 points off that rider for that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannon Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 It is interesting you don't hear much from the riders themselves. Not in that they should be complaining that certain riders get away with things while others do not, but as in a more open opinion about which set of rules they prefer; stop or no stop, and what difficulty is safe or not. Seems like we could easily compare and contrast the World events being no stop vs the Spanish Championship being stop allowed and see about difficulty, injuries, arguments w/ checkers, number of enters etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intotrials Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 15 hours ago, triangle said: The time limit per section was introduced in 1994 and was 3 minutes per section and people thought that was tight. Then it gradually reduced and even ended up at 1 minute per section which was really dangerous as the sections were not set at the correct length. The 90 second time limit is spot on if a time limit is to be applied (which in my opinion is necessary at top level) but at club level it works fine without. Riders soon get moaned at by other riders in the queue if they are taking an age to ride the section. I have observed at world rounds and enforced the rules consistently and fairly (the key word for all observing is consistent) and guess what - we got a complete barrage of abuse for sticking to the rules. One of the team even got a helmet thrown at him by one of the minders and a complete barrage of swearing - good old family sport eh! There is a huge difference between a momentary pause and a definite stop and the riders at the top level have pushed it for years. Trouble is that it appears to be the FIM who are not changing the rules for some reason which I don't understand. I'm sure the official quotes were that it would be more affordable and increase entries! yeah right! At grass roots level, how do you explain to a newcomer that you don't actually know what you will get scored as this observer will let you off but that one won't. It is laughable really and it just needs simplifying somehow. I agree with everything you have said here, I've done some observing myself at worlds rounds, you have to have thick skin. You are right, at most grass roots comps the riders just want a ride out and have fun! The sections can be set at a severity that tests all levels but are not dangerous and achievable without stopping. Personally though "stop" permitted gets my vote with a time limit on the section, it takes the pressure off the observers, makes it less ambiguous and gives the riders a fair chance of getting themselves out of trouble. For the world rounds I'd concentrate on making the sections trickier rather than more dangerous. Putting in 12' steps that are do or die makes no sense, this just plays right into the hands of Bou & co. The world champions should set an example, it should be a mixture of all the terrain and have the variety of sections trials riders face at club level but with a severity that tests the top riders without being dangerous or silly. This is how they used to be 30+ years ago, what went wrong? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Intotrials said: . The world champions should set an example, it should be a mixture of all the terrain and have the variety of sections trials riders face at club level but with a severity that tests the top riders without being dangerous or silly. This is how they used to be 30+ years ago, what went wrong? Top riders got better beginners didnt the gap widened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intotrials Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 16 hours ago, nigel dabster said: Top riders got better beginners didnt the gap widened. I agree, this is because the modern bike allows for a riding style that is can be very elite. In that you can do "acrobatics" more easily on a modern bike, which takes fine tuned skill and lots of courage. The average rider hasn't the skills nor the courage to attempt such feats. But you see the young riders coming through are imitating the new riding style and are learning to be brave at this early age. For them this riding style is the norm. For anybody who comes into the sport from a different discipline such as road race or moto x, then the modern style of trials riding is so far removed from what they deem as "motorcycling" they cannot relate to the top level riders. I mentioned before, the sport of trials has developed into 2 different sports - Acrobatic trials (X-Trial) and Traditional trials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackallacky Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 FIM = Zero Accountability. In other news... I told the traffic cop who pulled me over that I was applying FIM No-Stop rules when I got to the red light.... he didn't appreciate my humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worlez Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 7:39 AM, Intotrials said: I agree, this is because the modern bike allows for a riding style that is can be very elite. In that you can do "acrobatics" more easily on a modern bike, which takes fine tuned skill and lots of courage. The average rider hasn't the skills nor the courage to attempt such feats. But you see the young riders coming through are imitating the new riding style and are learning to be brave at this early age. For them this riding style is the norm. For anybody who comes into the sport from a different discipline such as road race or moto x, then the modern style of trials riding is so far removed from what they deem as "motorcycling" they cannot relate to the top level riders. I mentioned before, the sport of trials has developed into 2 different sports - Acrobatic trials (X-Trial) and Traditional trials No, the sport has evolved naturally - the ‘average riders’ you refer to haven’t evolved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intotrials Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 7/6/2019 at 12:01 PM, worlez said: No, the sport has evolved naturally - the ‘average riders’ you refer to haven’t evolved. The average rider cannot relate to the skills of a world series rider, especially the likes of the top Spanish. The sport has evolved, the modern style of riding just on the back wheel is far removed from the traditional style of riding. Its very skilful and very trick, the younger riders coming through are imitating this and are mastering the technique, for everyone else its like trying a new sport. Don't get me wrong I'm not apposed to this riding style, I love trying to have a go myself, but the truth is I can and do just watch in awe. These guys attempt stuff that just looks impossible to the average rider and that divide is getting larger. I play golf, I could play any course in the world, not as good as the pro's but I could get round. I can jump on a GP bike and race around Silverstone, no where near as quick as the pro's but I could get round. I've been riding trials for 30+ years, at a high standard in my younger days, I couldn't ride a single section at a world round, I wouldn't have a clue how to attempt them even if I had the courage to do so. This for me is why I feel the sport has evolved into 2 different sports. Trials & X-Trials. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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