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Graham2

A break through moment, reliably starting a 125 GasGas

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As a light weight 68kg 58 year returning adult I read lots of advice about bike choice and chose a 2013 immaculate gas gas txt pro.

fantastic bike when it's running, cannot praise it highly enough,  However it proved a random starter.  Reading deeper into this I find others saying they can be hard to start. Sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldn't.  So frustrating I nearly sold it.  I can start mont 4rt, beta 250 4rt and beta 250 evo so my kicking strength is good enough.  Yes the bike is in excellent order.

I read all the advice.  Choke no throttle when cold. Choke if allowed to cool for even 10 min.  Take up slack in kick start, get above the bike/ lean against tree etc. Surprise it with a quick fast kick.  Preferably in neutral , fresh fuel, etc. Tried this for months and had some very frustrating times.  Ahhhhh. Friends laughed until they tried and got the same result.

someone did say rock it backwards and forward in gear.  near, but not precise enough.  Here is my breakthrough moment. When warm, I pull it gently backwards against compression, pull the clutch in , hold it on at least 1/4 throttle and kick it in gear.  This has proved almost totally reliable and predictable.  Brilliant, can't say how chuffed I am, starting to enjoy riding again.

hope this is useful to someone. Presumably it would work with any gg and many riders probably do it but no one told me.

cheers folks

 

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Or you just bring it up to TDC, every time you kick it. Starting in gear is harder.

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If this is working for you that is great. 

I however have to say that for me I have best luck when I match with Lineaways comment, my daughters 08 Gas Gas 125 is much easier to start with the piston at the top and in out of gear.  The only other thing that really helped was re-jetting it.  

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Welcome to the club! Yup, sparking a GG is a ritual, but it does work if you're true to the procedure. Accept no substitute! 

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What an odd finicky procedure!  Has the carb been really *really* thoroughly cleaned, and put together with a rebuild kit?

(My TXT Pro was probably the best kick starter I've ever owned)

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Hi, in answer to turbofurball.  The carb has been completely stripped, perfectly cleaned and fully rebuilt, twice! Along with the fuel tap filter and the filter on the side of the carb.  As I did think this may have been the problem.  All electrical earths cleaned and silicone greased, air box and filter perfect , new plug , etc. I had every jet out of the carb and checked with gas gas, they are all standard. Flywheel side cover removed and checked. All clean and immaculate.  Unmolested and still on original tyres.

The club has an much older 125 (prob low on compression?) that starts v easily but mine has been a sod at times and yet it is a little firecracker when going.

 

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14 hours ago, Graham2 said:

Hi, in answer to turbofurball.  The carb has been completely stripped, perfectly cleaned and fully rebuilt, twice! Along with the fuel tap filter and the filter on the side of the carb.  As I did think this may have been the problem.  All electrical earths cleaned and silicone greased, air box and filter perfect , new plug , etc. I had every jet out of the carb and checked with gas gas, they are all standard. Flywheel side cover removed and checked. All clean and immaculate.  Unmolested and still on original tyres.

The club has an much older 125 (prob low on compression?) that starts v easily but mine has been a sod at times and yet it is a little firecracker when going.

 

filter on side of carb? Its a dellorto then?

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My 2014 GG225 was a bear to start or re-start.  Chunked the Dellorto and replaced it with an Taiwanese OKO/Kehein clone.  Much better, hot or cold.  Was it necessary? No.  Worth the trouble?  Definitely.

Edited by krazyosucowboy

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So the Dellorto PHBL carbs are the reason why they are so hard to start? 

What about trying to start it in gear down a steep hill? 

 

 

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After 3 years and lots of tuning, I decided to try something different with my 2014 125 converted to a 225.  The problem, imho, is actually that some of the various ignition systems that GG has used over the years requires a very fast kick from tdc to produce adequate spark for starting.  A new carb won't improve that.  But when you kick it "right" better fueling improves cold starting slightly.  Hot starts on the other hand are much better and more consistent.  Unsure why or how it's different from the Dellorto other than the OKO uses an air mix screw, Dellorto uses a fuel screw.  40 years of Moto's and still learning, please school me if I'm getting it wrong.  At 65 multiple kicks at every section 3 loops was killing me.

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Also on Dellorto PHBL 26 carbs i watched a film by Jim Snell saying that the fuel screw is supposed to after it is screwed all the way in until it turns no more you are supposed to turn it out (anti clockwise) 3 and a half turn...

I checked this on my 2005 Gas Gas TXT 125 Pro and that was only turned out 2 and a half turn

The film by Jim Snell explains a lot about the Dellorto PHBL 26 carburetor. 

To watch the film search youtube for: Jim Snell - USA - TIPS FOR THE PHBL26 DELLORTO TRIALS CARBURETOR

If i put the link to the film here the film will show on here in this ppost and i am not sure if that is allowed?

 

 

 

Edited by thesaint

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Re my original post and all your replies.  Thank you for all the interest. 

I thought it would confuse the original issue if I discussed the jetting changes I have made. Just to emphasise the problem of starting was with or without these changes.

I found my125 pro fouled its plug very quickly to a rich blackness within one tank full of fuel.  Yes I trickle around like an old man some of the time but equally I give it some Welly from time to time.  I became fed up with changing the plug.  I read and watched, particularly Jim Snell's carb video.  I eventually decided to lower the needle one notch and it improves the situation a lot.  I have moved to one and three quarter turns out on the front screw(sorry I can never remember if it is called a fuel or an air screw, lean is in). So my setting on this screw is leaner than the 3.5 average setting.  On this journey I did speak to factory Kev to take his advice.  When I assured him my original settings were standard I expected him to recommend different jetting.  His advise was to rev it v hard very regularly.  I am not prepared to do this so I ignored the advise and leaned it down.  My much more experienced expert rider friends have the new settings the thumbs up and expressed enthusiasm for how lovely the bike is. They normally ride 250s and had not ridden 125s.  Someone will ask if the air is clean..... Yes totally and lightly oiled every ride if dusty etc.  Every other ride if not.

Love the bike now I can start it.  Tempted by a TRS 250....but I doubt it would improve my riding....would I enjoy riding more? Who knows

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23 hours ago, Graham2 said:

.  On this journey I did speak to factory Kev to take his advice.  When I assured him my original settings were standard I expected him to recommend different jetting.  His advise was to rev it v hard very regularly.  I am not prepared to do this so I ignored the advise and leaned it down. 

? what does Factory Kev know anyway ..........

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On 7/4/2019 at 2:49 PM, thesaint said:

Also on Dellorto PHBL 26 carbs i watched a film by Jim Snell saying that the fuel screw is supposed to after it is screwed all the way in until it turns no more you are supposed to turn it out (anti clockwise) 3 and a half turn...

I checked this on my 2005 Gas Gas TXT 125 Pro and that was only turned out 2 and a half turn

The film by Jim Snell explains a lot about the Dellorto PHBL 26 carburetor. 

To watch the film search youtube for: Jim Snell - USA - TIPS FOR THE PHBL26 DELLORTO TRIALS CARBURETOR

If i put the link to the film here the film will show on here in this ppost and i am not sure if that is allowed?

 

 

 

2.5 or 3.5 is probably down to fuel in the usa and individual set up neither is right or wrong.

Edited by nigel dabster

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