nigel dabster Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, faussy said: Are you serious? It's a simple as injecting the mould with an inferior harder rubber compound. What exactly is impossible about that? Please tell me. If anything it would be more economical for the average punter because the tyres would last longer. That's right, you go around all the manufacturers and tell them next year's bike has to have 2 shocks and see how far you get. I am serious. You are being naive. I understand the process of harder rubber but who gets the tyres, who checks the compounds? Which riders have to have the tyres all in wtc? national championships, club trials? Tyres for the average punter last long enough now, at most nationals you can see lots of new or nearly new tyres too. Nothing really is impossible, certainly impractible (sp?) but id like to know how you would get a worse tyre made, accepted by teams (especially when they got the organiser kicked out last year), let alone tested at events and regulated? Even if the powers that be thought it a good or workable idea and wanted to include it in regs. So impossible yes in the real world, just the same as 2 shocks like you say.... Edited July 5, 2019 by nigel dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 10 hours ago, faussy said: You are showing a real naivety here. Tarres was an absolute animal on a bike. And arguably the most professional rider ever. There's maybe only one or 2 riders post Tarres with more ability. Put a 90s Tarres on a 2019 bike and he would **** on virtually everyone (bar bou) at a world round!! I would not describe tarres as an animal much more an artist with a type of symbiotic relationship with his bike. Certainly no more professional than dougie, colomer,raga or even going back Don smith sammy or vesty. tarres never won the ssdt, dougie and bou won more titles, and didnt ride competitively into his 40's as doug has, dont think hes done the scott either so im sure youre wrong there. But as illustrated above times change and unless you have a machine to transport jordi here or bou back then Sammy to 2019, Graham Jarvis to not injure his knee the year he couldve done well in the wtc its guess work and hypothesis on your favourite?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 All this talk of restricting tires and making bikes heavier/fatter/older is missing the point. The problem isn't the bikes or rider skill level. The problem is the mindset of the people designing sections. When I was doing section design for my club events years ago I had the usual cast of New England riders plus Geoff Aaron 10 time US champion. I noticed a trend with the other trialsmasters. They'd set up these insane hits to get Geoff to drop points which were so intimidating to anyone else nobody else would ride the champ class. It wouldn't matter because Geoff would eat these hits for breakfast. My club had a different approach. We would have hits doable by the class below (expert) but the approach for the hits would be different for the different classes. Experts could go straight up while Geoff had to turn on rolly rocks in a stream bed or launch from an off camber slippery rock or have almost zero setup space. We'd always get him for points. But the other effect was the class below could see it was doable for them which is a tremendous confidence booster. World trials now isn't a test of skill. It's a circus to see who can stop Bou and Raga while selling the most tee shirts. I believe the effort to monetize trials by making it gladiatorial games hasn't been healthy for the sport. The growth driver for trials has always been the grass roots efforts of the local clubs and riders welcoming new riders and making the sport accessible. I've seen trials grow and contract and grow again and been surprised how the lessons learned are unlearned and relearned. Through it all I've seen one consistent thread. Trials is a weed. After it dies out the seeds spread and take root. Individual riders talk a few friends into getting bikes and find a place to ride. The few friends becomes a club. The club starts holding events drawing in more individual riders who talk a few friends into getting bikes and finding places to ride... So the real question is how does the world trials scene support that growth engine. It certainly doesn't in it's current form. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 5:46 PM, endurofinn said: I'm sorry to say this and don't get me wrong, but motorcycles are dangerous. Plain and simple. Have you watched supercross or motocross? The riders are absolutely amazing athletes and what a beautiful sport motocross is, but there has been and there will always be horrific injuries - no matter what they do to the rules. It sucks, but I guess every rider accepts the risks while they sign up for a race. Unfortunately, same applies to trials - once Gelabert sent that Sherco wide open to that crazy section and broke his face, he accepted the risks before the first gate and went for it. Unfortunately I don't see any ways to change that, at least not as long as Bou keeps dominating the series. This may sound dull, but what we are witnessing with Toni Bou right now, is absolutely amazing and something we will never see again. A rider like that is born once every 50-years, if even that. If you don't want to see Bou out there "ruining" the sport for every other rider, you should speak directly to Honda and recommend them to pay a seven figure amount of Euros for Bou to retire. Bou is the Ricky Carmichael of trials, and a bit more. RC did two perfect seasons in the AMA Nationals back in the days (winning 24 motos out of 24) and "ruined" the sport for anyone else. I just don't see any way out of this situation right now until Toni retires. By making the sections easier and safer, you make Bou go 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0... That would suck even more than the current situation. Trials has always been the safest of motorcycle sports. I see no great benefit in it becoming as dangerous as supercross? I don't think any parent wants their child to end up in a wheelchair like Danny Chandler or David Bailey or from road racing Wayne Rainey or any number of TT riders who never came home. There is an essential difference in that trials just needs to find a winner. The clerk of the course at any trial needs to find a winner but also ensure that the rest of the competitors actually enjoy themselves. So you don't need to take 70 off Raga or 130 off the last place guy. Some more cleans for everyone wouldn't go amiss. It is absolutely possible to take marks off Bou without dangerous sections. At the Nevis range he lost enough, he lost marks in 125 sections actually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 hours ago, baldilocks said: It is absolutely possible to take marks off Bou without dangerous sections. At the Nevis range he lost enough, he lost marks in 125 sections actually. Why wouldn't someone of Bou's ability not ride the scott or ssdt ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, b40rt said: Why wouldn't someone of Bou's ability not ride the scott or ssdt ? In short it doesn't line up with their (Montesa's) primary goals for Trials GP and X Trials. Just to much distraction and risk I would expect. Edited July 7, 2019 by jonnyc21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangle Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 9:44 PM, nigel dabster said: I would not describe tarres as an animal much more an artist with a type of symbiotic relationship with his bike. Certainly no more professional than dougie, colomer,raga or even going back Don smith sammy or vesty. tarres never won the ssdt, dougie and bou won more titles, and didnt ride competitively into his 40's as doug has, dont think hes done the scott either so im sure youre wrong there. But as illustrated above times change and unless you have a machine to transport jordi here or bou back then Sammy to 2019, Graham Jarvis to not injure his knee the year he couldve done well in the wtc its guess work and hypothesis on your favourite?? so Jordi didn't win the SSDT in 1987 then? When he retired he was much younger than a lot of the top lads are now as they all keep going as nobody is coming through to challenge them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) Apologies i checked his palmares and it didnt mention the one win. There are lots of reasons why young lads are not challenging now, im not sure Tarres would or wouldnt have lasted longer now but again its hypothetical, different times different riders. regardless i accept you agreeing he wasnt/is the most professional which was your point? Edited July 8, 2019 by nigel dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangle Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, nigel dabster said: Apologies i checked his palmares and it didnt mention the one win. There are lots of reasons why young lads are not challenging now, im not sure Tarres would or wouldnt have lasted longer now but again its hypothetical, different times different riders. regardless i accept you agreeing he wasnt/is the most professional which was your point? Think somebody else made the quote about him being the most professional. He definitely changed the sport and was the sponsors dream being draped in sponsors logos etc. I agree with you that it is all completely hypothetical and there is no way you could drag somebody from the 60's etc into modern times and they ride against Bou etc. I personally think that riders are much better now than they used to be in years gone by as techniques are more refined and it is irrelevant to the bike as Bou etc would do far harder stuff on a standard Bultaco than what Vesty, Mart etc were doing in their heyday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intotrials Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 2 hours ago, triangle said: Think somebody else made the quote about him being the most professional. He definitely changed the sport and was the sponsors dream being draped in sponsors logos etc. I agree with you that it is all completely hypothetical and there is no way you could drag somebody from the 60's etc into modern times and they ride against Bou etc. I personally think that riders are much better now than they used to be in years gone by as techniques are more refined and it is irrelevant to the bike as Bou etc would do far harder stuff on a standard Bultaco than what Vesty, Mart etc were doing in their heyday. There have been only a few riders in the history of trials who have influenced the evolution of the sport taking it to another level. Tarres is definitely one of those few, along with Bou. The standard of riding at the top level has improved, you also see this across all kinds of sports these days. Bou like Tarres & Lampkin is a once in a while talent who come along and dominate during their era, arguably Bou being the best of them all. I wouldn't argue that Bou's skill level is above and beyond anyone that came before him. Somebody once quoted when Bou was just coming through the ranks "he's a good rider, if he learns to keep his front wheel on the ground he might make it to the top".... I'm sure similar comments were made about Tarres when he was young and up and coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 7/7/2019 at 7:58 AM, jonnyc21 said: Just to much distraction and risk I would expect. Too much of a risk to his reputation ? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, b40rt said: Too much of a risk to his reputation ? I can't say that isn't a factor... ?♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) The entries in the wtc this coming weekend for france are appalling. Usually one of the most popular rounds there are only 2 enties from france and 3 from the uk in the 125 class which historically was the best supported. The total is 13 entries in this class which usually loses approx 90% by the time it gets to gp class. Trial 2 women is better supported. its time for a rethink Thierry Michaud? Edited July 11, 2019 by nigel dabster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 It's Portugal this weekend? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canario Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 6 hours ago, baldilocks said: It's Portugal this weekend? Yes, but the T125 class is not part of the event. Off-Topic: Just noticed that the best french T125 starter of the last years is the son of the guy who sold the bike I ride today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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