Jump to content

hgas

When will it end ??

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

I would say changing tyres is probably impossible. There is really only one manufacturer at wtc level, would they produce tyres a smaller size? who pays for moulds ($$$)? privateers and youths have to buy there own? would everyone have to have them including uk club riders and so on. Unworkable and not the easiest. That would be twin shocks bolted on.

 

 

Are you serious? It's a simple as injecting the mould with an inferior harder rubber compound. What exactly is impossible about that? Please tell me. If anything it would be more economical for the average punter because the tyres would last longer.

That's right, you go around all the manufacturers and tell them next year's bike has to have 2 shocks and see how far you get. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

3 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

You cant turn the clock back on the increased ability of riders post Tarres?

You are showing a real naivety here. Tarres was an absolute animal on a bike. And arguably the most professional rider ever. There's maybe only one or 2 riders post Tarres with more ability. Put a 90s Tarres on a 2019 bike and he would **** on virtually everyone (bar bou) at a world round!!

Edited by faussy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Lots of talk of changing tyres /bikes why  ? why not just ban minders full stop ! if the riders have to go up sections with no minders to catch them or the bikes  ,The riders will soon call for the sections to be backed off  . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
40 minutes ago, on it said:

Lots of talk of changing tyres /bikes why  ? why not just ban minders full stop ! if the riders have to go up sections with no minders to catch them or the bikes  ,The riders will soon call for the sections to be backed off  . 

I wouldn't count on that ….

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

No doubt other old guys like me are smiling at the recollection of similar "where will it end" comments when the Spanish got the Bultacos and Montesas to ride so much better than the previous British stuff. I'll admit there is a difference in degree but it was ever thus. The tyre issue, one of his hobbyhorses, was raised frequently by Ralph Venables in his weekly trials column in MCN (current riders may find the idea that MCN knew what trials was and reported on loads of local events each week with the SSDT getting several pages hard to believe - their staff could actually write in proper English then too) and was always scorned but, in retrospect, perhaps he had something.

As far as "ordinary" trials, as opposed to WTC go, rock steps which we routinely rode on early Spanish stuff now don't get used because folk seem to find them too demanding (though the modern bike practically rides itself up them). I observed at a trial last year which used straightforward sections unchanged from the Seventies and many riders were moaning when they saw them.

I agree that WTC is beyond a joke, in many ways, but there does seem to be a marked lack of ambition in the young at grass roots level. As Breagh has said on occasion, an old twin shock could be (and is) used to clean the bulk of sections in the modern trials I now ride. Not that I'm complaining at my age but nobody would have laid out a trial to suit pensioners back then.

Edited by 2stroke4stroke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I really find this talk of limiting bikes frustrating and ill thought out.

If you limit innovation, you are handicapping riders whose ambition drives them to develop the skills that they are capable of.  Why would you possibly want to do this?!

Trials is a competitive sport.  The argument that WTC level is too far beyond club level illustrates the difference between a professional career athlete and somebody who rides as a hobby.  There is nothing wrong with the latter, but to limit the ambition of riders who are capable/willing/committed enough to push what's possible on a bike is ludicrous.  There is a reason 'the average' (what does that even mean anyway!?) rider can't attempt WTC sections, the same way that Toni Bou wouldn't attempt to achieve what the Sunday league riders achieve in their respective careers'.

At some point everybody is a clubman - it's the ambition of each rider that determines the way they progress.  If you begrudge not being able to have a go at WTC sections, put the effort in until your ride well enough to attempt them.

So let's please drop this ludicrous desire to hinder the progression of trials.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Can you imagine telling Usain Bolt to run in army boots because he was too fast and made the other runners feel uncompetitive. Does the fact that somebody can run as fast as he can really deter people from going out for a run with their mates? I really feel it is a sad state of affairs these days when young people give up sport at an early age because they figure they will never beat the best. I think we should put way more emphasis on getting more people out and enjoying giving it their best, instead of putting all the focus on one or 2 top performers. I have seen lots of cases where a second place finisher looks like he has just lost everything in life and the last place finisher looks happier than a pig in **** for being able to complete the race - In my mind last place finisher is often the real winner (and not just because it is usually me :) ) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
30 minutes ago, worlez said:

I really find this talk of limiting bikes frustrating and ill thought out.

If you limit innovation, you are handicapping riders whose ambition drives them to develop the skills that they are capable of.  Why would you possibly want to do this?!

Trials is a competitive sport.  The argument that WTC level is too far beyond club level illustrates the difference between a professional career athlete and somebody who rides as a hobby.  There is nothing wrong with the latter, but to limit the ambition of riders who are capable/willing/committed enough to push what's possible on a bike is ludicrous.  There is a reason 'the average' (what does that even mean anyway!?) rider can't attempt WTC sections, the same way that Toni Bou wouldn't attempt to achieve what the Sunday league riders achieve in their respective careers'.

At some point everybody is a clubman - it's the ambition of each rider that determines the way they progress.  If you begrudge not being able to have a go at WTC sections, put the effort in until your ride well enough to attempt them.

So let's please drop this ludicrous desire to hinder the progression of trials.

 

Of course, tyres are already restricted by regulation. Would you advocate a return to the use of full knobblies for grip in mud? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

The problem with trials and where it differs to other sports is that the course set out in the world rounds is only achievable by the very top few. The Usain Bolt example is good because isn't expected to run 120 metres, he still runs the same course as the others but is or was quicker than everybody else. This is the problem that our sport is subjective to so many different things as there are different rules, different bikes, different observers etc. Football (which I'm not a fan of) at least has one set of rules and they play for 90 minutes and it has the same scoring system worldwide for everybody to understand. Motocross or road racing is dead simple too as whoever crosses the line first wins. Trials isn't like that as we have 2 sets of rules + the gate trial system they use in certain events and the rules are allowed to be abused. Limiting the development of the bikes is not the answer in my opinion as the modern bikes are great.

I watched the video from the Belgian world round last night and you could easily be fooled to think the rules had changed back to stop permitted. It is an embarrassment. The course setters need to be held responsible and the observers should just give everybody a 5 rather than letting them all off so it becomes acceptable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
7 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

any evidence to support this as im sure the overall figures are down, just look at clubs that no longer exsist etc. Nice to know acu figures that would give us some idea as to the trend?

Yes I agree there are clubs folding but that is nothing to do with lack of entries. That is down to a lack of people actually putting anything back into the job and helping to organise the events. The majority of the organisers are in advanced years of age and they cannot keep going. The ACU did publish something earlier this year saying how many ACU trials licence's were issued but I can't find it for the life of me. I'm sure they would gladly provide the information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
1 hour ago, michael_t said:

Can you imagine telling Usain Bolt to run in army boots because he was too fast and made the other runners feel uncompetitive.

Not really a comparison, unless you said everybody was running in army boots 😃 and Bolt /Bou would still win. However, they wouldn't be throwing themselves up 12' high steps with a less gripping tyre.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
42 minutes ago, b40rt said:

Not really a comparison, unless you said everybody was running in army boots 😃 and Bolt /Bou would still win. However, they wouldn't be throwing themselves up 12' high steps with a less gripping tyre.

If I was Bou I’d be p****d off that they doctored the sport to limit my potential and would be looking for another sport to challenge myself in. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
On 7/2/2019 at 7:38 AM, baldilocks said:

Having gone to Belgium to watch I am more concerned that he may be the last world champion.

It wasn't good to watch.

Section 8 lap 1, fajardo has an incredible clean, Bou loses 2. Everyone else 5 with a serious crash for Kadlec, lucky to walk away. Many made no attempt they just asked for a 5.

As we walked past section 9 Busto had a massive crash, it was so steep he fell about 20 feet and nearly took the observer with him. His bike was stopped by a tree but the impact was so severe all 4 handlebar clamp bolts were snapped clean off.

Section 10 was the section Fuji had a bad crash on last year but it was used again. Minders were doubling up to try and catch riders who didn't make it but generally couldn't stop some pretty awful incidents. Gelabert went cartwheeling backwards and was caught by his bike on the way down. He has , per his Instagram feed, broken bones above his jaw. The video is sickening, he could easily have been paralysed or killed. Jack Price, Dan Peace, Kadlec , Bincaz and Casales had similar incidents. Fuji ,  Busto and Bou cleaned it on lap 2, raga had a dab the rest had fives. You can't really call the above accidents , the probability of a crash is too high to say it's accidental.

For me the trial was simply too hard and dangerous for all but two riders. Raga in 3rd place averaged more than two marks per section and nobody can doubt his courage or ability. 

Should Trial GP follow other sports and make changes after someone is paralysed or killed or should it avoid the misery, the investigation and regret this would bring and make changes now ? 

 

I'm sorry to say this and don't get me wrong, but motorcycles are dangerous. Plain and simple. Have you watched supercross or motocross? The riders are absolutely amazing athletes and what a beautiful sport motocross is, but there has been and there will always be horrific injuries - no matter what they do to the rules. It sucks, but I guess every rider accepts the risks while they sign up for a race. Unfortunately, same applies to trials - once Gelabert sent that Sherco wide open to that crazy section and broke his face, he accepted the risks before the first gate and went for it. Unfortunately I don't see any ways to change that, at least not as long as Bou keeps dominating the series.

This may sound dull, but what we are witnessing with Toni Bou right now, is absolutely amazing and something we will never see again. A rider like that is born once every 50-years, if even that. If you don't want to see Bou out there "ruining" the sport for every other rider, you should speak directly to Honda and recommend them to pay a seven figure amount of Euros for Bou to retire. Bou is the Ricky Carmichael of trials, and a bit more. RC did two perfect seasons in the AMA Nationals back in the days (winning 24 motos out of 24) and "ruined" the sport for anyone else.

 

I just don't see any way out of this situation right now until Toni retires. By making the sections easier and safer, you make Bou go 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0... That would suck even more than the current situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
5 hours ago, triangle said:

Yes I agree there are clubs folding but that is nothing to do with lack of entries. That is down to a lack of people actually putting anything back into the job and helping to organise the events. The majority of the organisers are in advanced years of age and they cannot keep going. The ACU did publish something earlier this year saying how many ACU trials licence's were issued but I can't find it for the life of me. I'm sure they would gladly provide the information.

get it then as it was you that said they were increasing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
4 hours ago, worlez said:

If I was Bou I’d be p****d off that they doctored the sport to limit my potential and would be looking for another sport to challenge myself in. 

If I'd totally dominated a sport for more than a decade, I'd have looked for new challenges long ago !

Edited by b40rt
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...