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leosantanalg

300rr big bore vs 301

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What is the difference in the top end of the new 301 vs the big bore kit (S3) for the 300rr? The bigbore brings it to aprox 299cc.  Isnt it what the 301 measures? On a thread i started while ago I was contemplating the big bore and i had mention I was curious about the new edition!! Turns out the 301 is pretty much the 300 with a big bore and some adjustments in the valve that controls the engine brake in the lower end (correct me if I m mistaking please). 

Updates: Got the programable Throttle body from factory on 2018 RR so I just purchased hardware and softwares for re-mapping! Termignoni exhaust and header are next! Big bore is on its way via mail!

If you re about to say that I dont need power, that these upgrades are useless without the skill and such, just save your comment! It's winter here, and if I cant ride, I m putting time working to improve the bike. Also been thinking of a heavier spring for my rear Showa. Anyone has done that?? What's the feedback?  Thanks all

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As an engineering project it’s interesting but I think you could buy a 301rr for  less than what you are going to spend on a base 300rr plus bits 

looking at the works 300’s in 2018 they had an s3 barrel on I think

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The 301RR also has different center-cases (both sides) and a different crank. The parts list is available on the Montesa Honda Spain and Montesa France sites.

What is the part number of the programmable TB/ECU you got for the 300RR. Is it the HRC 16400-NN4-M01 from the RTL300R?

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On 11/9/2019 at 10:55 PM, leosantanalg said:

What is the difference in the top end of the new 301 vs the big bore kit (S3) for the 300rr? The bigbore brings it to aprox 299cc.  Isnt it what the 301 measures? On a thread i started while ago I was contemplating the big bore and i had mention I was curious about the new edition!! Turns out the 301 is pretty much the 300 with a big bore and some adjustments in the valve that controls the engine brake in the lower end (correct me if I m mistaking please). 

Updates: Got the programable Throttle body from factory on 2018 RR so I just purchased hardware and softwares for re-mapping! Termignoni exhaust and header are next! Big bore is on its way via mail!

If you re about to say that I dont need power, that these upgrades are useless without the skill and such, just save your comment! It's winter here, and if I cant ride, I m putting time working to improve the bike. Also been thinking of a heavier spring for my rear Showa. Anyone has done that?? What's the feedback?  Thanks all

Based on what I read the different crank venting to lower compression braking and the change in the flywheel would really be the only big differences mechanically in a 300RR with the big bore and the 301RR.  On the other side fuel and ignition mapping would be the only other thing that would really make a difference and you should be able to sort that with the PTB software/hardware.

Would be very interested in knowing how well it all works out for you.

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On 11/10/2019 at 1:21 PM, sportsawyer said:

The 301RR also has different center-cases (both sides) and a different crank. The parts list is available on the Montesa Honda Spain and Montesa France sites.

What is the part number of the programmable TB/ECU you got for the 300RR. Is it the HRC 16400-NN4-M01 from the RTL300R?

Hi Sports lawyer

Did you get anywhere after your post on the 300RR PTB thread we had going a while back

Thanks for the update. I've continued searching for information on an Optional Tuning Kit for the 2016/2017 300RR (or RTL300R) and 4RT260 bikes. But haven't found anything yet that's specific to the 300RR. Have seen some suggestions that the 2016 / 2017 4RT260 3ED/4ED TB/ECU (16400-NN4-L31) is also programmable, but no "I've done it and used this" reports.

Have found that Honda has unified the cable set (38880-N1C-770  UNIT ASSY, SERIAL-USB I/F), and it's used for every other programmable FI bike since MY 2012 that I've found information on -- CBR250R, NSF250R, MSX125, CBR1000RR, CRF450R, CRF250R, and probably more. I suspect this supersedes the 38880-NN4-H00 cable set (first came out for the 2010 Japanese RTL260F), which superseded the 38880-NN4-306 cable set. I have the 38880-NN4-H00 set (use it with the 2010 RTL260F software 38771-NN4-H00) and it appears to be the same as the newer 38880-N1C-770 down to all the connectors and lettering on the switch box.

I'll update with any new information I find. And hopefully Honda will get around to publishing something about the kit.

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31 minutes ago, jimmyl said:

... Did you get anywhere after your post on the 300RR PTB thread we had going a while back ...

 

I was going to ask you the same. Were you ever able to get your stock 4ED TB/ECU to take a program? I'd try it, but don't have a 300RR to play with.

Still haven't found any details regarding an Optional Tuning Kit for the 300RR. But did find a new TB/ECU part number in a Japanese updated price list for HRC parts. It's 16400-NN4-M01 and listed for the current RTL300R sold in Japan. That number would follow the scheme used with the 2010 RTL260F sold in Japan. The 2010 RTL260F did come standard with a 2-map programmable TB/ECU with P.N. 16400-NN4-H01. The parts list for that bike also showed the Serial-USB  I/F cable and software as optional. So I've been try to find an RTL300R parts list online to see if it shows the same. So far, no luck.

Also, the 301RR parts list and manual are now out. And nothing in either about the stock 4ED 16400-NN1-P71 being programmable or Optional Tuning Kit Serial-USB I/F cable or software.

The Japanese HRC site has "setting tools" listed for the CRF450R and CRF250R, but not the RTL300R. But it does show the 38880-N1C-770 Serial-USB I/F/ cable as compatible with "... RTL260F/RTL300R (RTL requires dedicated sub-code)" so it looks like that's common, but I don't know if the RTL260F 2-map software 38771-NN4-H00 works with the 300RR (I'm guessing it would, but not sure).

So... still looking. Anyone else know for sure?

leosantanalg, have you been able to program the stock 4ED 16400-NN4-M71 yet? Which Serial-USB I/F and software did you use? And did you download the factory maps for modes 1 and 2 from the TB/ECU before reprogramming?

 

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Hi

No never tried again  -had a look on line at the CRF programming stuff but nothing was cheap and didn't want to spend the money for just a play.

Maybe need to ask my dealer if they have software available as they have both the Montesa and Honda off road  franchises as well as their road bike  offerings.

Also

Are you saying the 301 has 301RR parts list and manual are now out. And nothing in either about the stock 4ED 16400-NN1-P71 

The 300 RR being 16400-NN4-M71

Other throttle bodies have a noticeably different parts number not just a letter change!!

 

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36 minutes ago, jimmyl said:

... Are you saying the 301 has 301RR parts list and manual are now out. And nothing in either about the stock 4ED 16400-NN1-P71 

The 300 RR being 16400-NN4-M71

Other throttle bodies have a noticeably different parts number not just a letter change!!

 

The 2020 301RR parts list and manual are available online from Montesa France and Montesa Honda Spain.

The numbering is as expected. 16400 is the component code for an integrated TB/ECU. The NN4 is the model code for all 4RTs (250, 260, 300, 301, standard, Repsol, 4Ride), some of the early programmable units had an HRC model code here, but all newer (than about 2007) TB/ECUs programmable or not use the NN4 model code. The M and P are just for the model-year the part first appeared. Any new parts on any 2017 4RT models had an M. The 2018 continued to use the 2017 TB/ECU. The P is for any new parts on 2020 4RT models, so when you're looking at the parts list, scan for the P parts for anything new. The 7 is for parts unique to the 300/301 4ED models, a 6 in that position is for the 300/301 2ED models.

The RTL has a slightly different scheme for the last 2 digits for parts unique to the Japanese HRC bikes. And since there was a -H01 programmable in 2010, I'm guessing the -M01 may also be programmable. The Japanese HRC RTL models only come in one flavor per model year, just a competition model in one displacement and no standard/Repsol.

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