Starting technique for ‘19 Vertical Combat??

[irishjohn]

Sold my ‘17 Montesa 4rt and bought a left over ‘19 Vertical Combat. I love this bike! So much easier to ride in all respects... except one, starting.   If I have a tree to lean against or a rock to stand on where I can get up over the bike, I can start it 1st or 2nd kick.  But if none of those available no way. What am I doing wrong?  How do I position my body to get enough leverage to kick it over?????

i tried using the side stand to support the bike while that worked, it bends the side stand.  

[jsp]

I find my 19 likes a tiny bit of throttle when starting 

[the dabster]

Three kicks to start from cold is normal. Engage the kickstart with the throttle closed and prime it with a soft push through the stroke, second kick engage top of stroke again and push through with some throttle on. It will go on the third kick with a swift kick from the top and approx. quarter throttle kept on as you kick through, it needs throttle to start don't roll it off.

[sergioNMD]

13 hours ago, the dabster said:

Three kicks to start from cold is normal. Engage the kickstart with the throttle closed and prime it with a soft push through the stroke, second kick engage top of stroke again and push through with some throttle on. It will go on the third kick with a swift kick from the top and approx. quarter throttle kept on as you kick through, it needs throttle to start don't roll it off.

I also had a 2019 Vertigo. I confirm what @the dabster said. 

I also had a Montesa 4rt and you definetely have to put more energy in the way you kick.. Lot more strenght.

What I never solved was the tendency of my 2019 Vertigo kickstarter lever to not fully return to the upright position... Tried changing the oil seal, tried greasing it, tried degreasing it, tried filing down the kickstart shaft with ultra fine sandpaper... But nothing helped. It improved a little when the engine got hot.... Go figure.

Edited March 14, 2020 by sergioNMD

[irishjohn]

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I’m to short. If I can get above the pivot point, no problem kicking through. Is there a way to position the bike to get more leverage, lean it to the left? Stand close the left side or away from it, etc etc

[tcrhino]

Not only kick down, but also a bit to the back of the bike. And what Dabster said: swift kick from the top. 

What does help me when I am tired: put the baseplate on a log or stone.

[irishjohn]

Thanks all. Been doing a bit of leg work to get more kick to my kick. She’s a grand bike though!

[jaysktms]

Usually 3 kicks here also, and a bit of throttle to fire.

[Canario]

On 3/14/2020 at 12:06 AM, the dabster said:

Three kicks to start from cold is normal. Engage the kickstart with the throttle closed and prime it with a soft push through the stroke, second kick engage top of stroke again and push through with some throttle on. It will go on the third kick with a swift kick from the top and approx. quarter throttle kept on as you kick through, it needs throttle to start don't roll it off.

I need 12 to 15 Kicks to get the cold engine started. The throttle is on while kicking and I close throttle between Kicks. As soon as the bike is running, I am also warmed up. 😉

Any suggestions are very much appreciated.

Canario

Edited May 7 by Canario

[KmK]

The dealer informed me that 2 priming kicks load the fuel into the fuel injection system. This is necessary as there is no fuel shutoff. The third kick with 1/4 throttle and it should always start. If not then there is a problem with the bike that requires service. Once the bike is warm it should start with just one kick. 

My experience with my old trials bike taught me that you need to have the cylinder loaded for max compression when you kick it. If you apply a little pressure to the kick starter and it slides through the stroke, it needs to be reloaded.  The kick starter should have resistance at the highest spot. Then a full solid kick is what you need. This typically requires some gymnastics. Two hands on the hand grips. One foot one the kick starter, at the top. One foot on the ground. Then jump with the leg that is/was on the ground. Once you are up in the air, and just starting to descend, use the leg on the kick starter to stroke the engine. And at same time twist the throttle. 

Or use a tree to lean the bike against, with left grip, and front brake on. This isn't as good but can work.

[Canario]

23 hours ago, KmK said:

The dealer informed me that 2 priming kicks load the fuel into the fuel injection system. This is necessary as there is no fuel shutoff. The third kick with 1/4 throttle and it should always start. [...]

Thank you very much. 👍

This means, that the first 2 Kicks are without any throttle?

Canario

[KmK]

Yes, when it is cold, the first two kicks are without throttle. 

Once it is warmed up, then these first two kicks are not necessary and you would use the 1/4 throttle technique.

I was having trouble cold starting my Vertical 200 also. After I tried this technique, first two kicks without throttle, it always starts on the third or fourth kick.

Edited May 12 by KmK
added more to reply for clarification

[KmK]

I was out last weekend and stalled the bike riding as slow as I could without using the clutch.

I was in the woods, practicing balance techniques, and the bike was very warm.

My guess is that I flooded the engine with a rich fuel mixture, and attempts to restart the bike with the 1/4 throttle technique wasn't working.

After three or four kicks, I tried full throttle, and it started with one kick. Followed by a cloud of white, un-burnt fuel, smoke.

This technique may be required, full throttle, when the bike is really warmed up and you stall it out.

So there is basically three different algorithms for starting these bikes.

Cold start: two priming kicks, with no throttle, then 1 to 2 kicks with 1/4 throttle.

Warm start: 1 to 2 kicks with 1/4 throttle.

Flooded start: 1 to 2 kicks with full throttle (use as a lasts resort with warmed up bike that stalls).

[mattbradders]

I put a new plug in a couple of weeks ago (2019 DL Rep 300) and gapped the plug to 0.75 instead of 0.7.  The bike was really hard to start when warm, checked the manual and realized my mistake, re-gapped the plug correctly and have had no issues since.  I know not everyone is a dumb as me but thought it worth mentioning!!

 

Matt

[Tiewrap]

I just bought a 2016 300 which seems to have the same problem as the topic starter.

The bike is converted to no-battery and the dealer thinks the software is not updated. The dealer is also not able to update the software.

It seems the bike starts with a little but throttle, but sometimes I have to kick a lot. When I turn the bike off when it's hot and want to start 5-10 minutes later it's the worst. (Seems flooded). I really like the bike but this just have to get better. 

Also the bike knocks/detonate when giving throttle on lower revs. It seems to run lean although it runs pretty good (best I've ridden so far)

Does anybody have an idea if there are affordable options to get the right software on it ? I am willing to travel to Belgium, France, Germany or maybe even Spain or Italy.

 

Haven't checked spark plug yet.

 

Edited September 15 by Tiewrap
Added info