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jbrandt

Tire musings

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Okay, I couldn't really find a discussion thread on tires aside from the odd mention of tire brands or tubliss here and there, and since I have a Beta, I'm putting it here.  If there's a better area for this type of post, I'll certainly head over there...

 

I'm mostly curious as to people's thoughts on the different types of tire (tyre) systems.  Not brands like Dunlops vs. IRC or whatever.

I'm thinking about true tubeless vs. tubliss vs. tubes (light or heavyweight)

 

I'm new to trials (but not new to trail bikes), so I'm really curious what people are running.  I recently put Tubliss on my trail bike and absolutely I love it, and I'm tending towards that when it's time for new tires.  I've really been happy with the low pressure performance and the "rim lock" of the tubliss system, but it also comes at a slight weight disadvantage (unless you're running heavy duty tubes), which I'm sure I'd notice more on a trials bike.

 

Anyhoo, thanks in advance, and happy riding

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 Good luck with that. We figured this out in the years from `87- `92.

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I ride 1970s off-road bikes.

I bought a Tubliss for using with tubeless rear trials tyres on tube type rims on trials bikes but when I weighed the Tubliss and found it was heavier than a tube, I continued with my normal method of trimming the beads on the tubeless tyres to fit the tube type rims.

The $160 Tubliss is still sitting on my shelf

Your Rev3 should have a tubeless type rear rim and if the rim sealing band is still sealing, it will work fine with a tubeless trials tyre without a tube or a Tubliss. Some people have problems with the sealing band not sealing against the rim and end up using a tube to avoid air loss. Once a tubeless tyre is seated on a tubeless type rim, it usually stays put but there was a problem a few years ago with IRC rears in this regard.

Edited by feetupfun

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1 hour ago, feetupfun said:

I ride 1970s off-road bikes.

I bought a Tubliss for using with tubeless rear trials tyres on tube type rims on trials bikes but when I weighed the Tubliss and found it was heavier than a tube, I continued with my normal method of trimming the beads on the tubeless tyres to fit the tube type rims.

The $160 Tubliss is still sitting on my shelf

Your Rev3 should have a tubeless type rear rim and if the rim sealing band is still sealing, it will work fine with a tubeless trials tyre without a tube or a Tubliss. Some people have problems with the sealing band not sealing against the rim and end up using a tube to avoid air loss. Once a tubeless tyre is seated on a tubeless type rim, it usually stays put but there was a problem a few years ago with IRC rears in this regard.

Quite honestly I'm not sure what it has. I'm sure that at least at some point it was tubeless, but it's 20 years old, and I'm probably the 3rd or 4th owner. Could be anything inside there, maybe even rocks, lol.

Again, this exposes my noob-ness, but I guess it's just a foreign concept to think about a rear motorcycle tire without a rim-lock running 4 psi...  Is there just some magic trials voodoo that keeps the bead on at 4psi? 

My tires definitely need to be replaced sooner rather than later, they are cracked and worn down, but at this point still holding air, so I'm letting that bear sleep until I pull the trigger on new tires.  I'd rather not take it off just to see what it has inside until I have a replacement on hand.  My luck it wouldn't seat again or the tire would fall apart as I'm putting it back on.

I found that since I used HD tubes in my trail bike, the weight penalty of Tubliss was effectively zero, and the advantages of being able to essentially run zero psi with almost no chance of blowing a bead was of great benefit.

Edited by jbrandt

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54 minutes ago, jbrandt said:

Quite honestly I'm not sure what it has. I'm sure that at least at some point it was tubeless, but it's 20 years old, and I'm probably the 3rd or 4th owner. Could be anything inside there, maybe even rocks, lol.

Again, this exposes my noob-ness, but I guess it's just a foreign concept to think about a rear motorcycle tire without a rim-lock running 4 psi...  Is there just some magic trials voodoo that keeps the bead on at 4psi? 

My tires definitely need to be replaced sooner rather than later, they are cracked and worn down, but at this point still holding air, so I'm letting that bear sleep until I pull the trigger on new tires.  I'd rather not take it off just to see what it has inside until I have a replacement on hand.  My luck it wouldn't seat again or the tire would fall apart as I'm putting it back on.

I found that since I used HD tubes in my trail bike, the weight penalty of Tubliss was effectively zero, and the advantages of being able to essentially run zero psi with almost no chance of blowing a bead was of great benefit.

There's nothing wrong with asking noob questions.

Rear tubeless trials rims have a groove that the bead pops into like a tubeless car rim and tyre does. The beads are so tight in those grooves that you usually need to break the bead with a special tool or using a bench vice or similar. It's a very reliable design.

The original rim on your bike will have a sealing band for the rim well. These are rubber and get hard with age and the rim surface can become rough from corrosion. If it leaks there you can always try a new sealing band or use a tube. If your wheel is holding air now and you don't disturb the sealing band while you have the tyre off, it will probably work fine with the new tyre.

Yes good idea not to take the old tyre off till you have a new tyre ready to go on. If it was me and the old tyre is really old (they have manuf date on them) I would have a new sealing band and a nice lightweight tube on hand too.

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I think once you go tubeless with a new tire at the proper pressure you’ll wonder why every bike doesn’t go tubeless. The grip is mind boggling.

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21 minutes ago, dan williams said:

I think once you go tubeless with a new tire at the proper pressure you’ll wonder why every bike doesn’t go tubeless. The grip is mind boggling.

Oh I did that on my trail bike, well Tubliss...  And yeah, it's mind boggling how much grip it has, especially combined with the gummy hybrid tire.

 

Just need to learn to trust that the bead doesn't need a rim lock like the trail/mx bikes do.

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I’m a Tubliss fan. Done hundreds of hours with them but on my enduro bike. Pointless on a trials bike as like others have said. What is used these days just works.....even on the Rev3. I had a 200, brilliant bike. 
 

Grab yourself some new rubber, rim band and if need be (wise precaution) new front tube. Be happy. 

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My rev 3 rim was quite corroded when I took off the old rear tyre, and despite my best efforts I couldn't get a good seal from the rim band, so I fitted a tube. With a nice new Michelin the grip was amazing and the tyre stayed seated properly. Good luck.

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10 hours ago, lineaway said:

 Good luck with that. We figured this out in the years from `87- `92.

Is that why today we have a tubed front, that in the past went through a tubeless phase, but has since went back to tube?

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 Yeah, every so often you will hear someone ask where to buy a tubeless front tire as that is what is stamped on the rim.

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Doesn't Ray Peters advocate running the Tubliss set up on tube type front trials tires?

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If you were doing a long event I can see the benefits of Tubliss up front. You can’t get a pinch flat in the tube If say crossing moors at a pace and you hit a rock in grass. That would be a right pain, flat tube out on exposed hills. Tubliss removes that issue, you could also drop pressure right to zero if need be. I’ve done this a lot on the enduro bike. For technical or tight/slow events in winter it is brilliant. Flat tyres does two things. Makes the wheels smaller meaning quicker acceleration and more responsive. Huge grip as the tyres are like caterpillar tracks!.....and the bikes lower so easier to dab when needed. I’ve found my rims don’t get mashed because the 100psi inner core and bead/sidewalls of the tyre place a rubber cushion for impacts. I love it! Got some of my best enduro race results on flat tyres. 
 

I have a set not on the enduro bike ATM. I might try it up front for winter. 

Edited by pindie

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