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Brits in Trial GP / Trial GP overall

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On 12/12/2020 at 10:11 AM, on it said:

So to recap for Nigel " I class" ALL i say again "ALL"  "ALL" ALL" sponsored riders the/a problem ! AND  the topic is about TRIAL GP  Thats NOT trial GB !! elite riders living? well they soon leave when they drop down a few places  and not get the same sponsorship ,so how many of these  top/elite riders have a 9-5 day job away from bikes ? and on the subject why do people take up a profession if not to make a living from it 

My reference above was for UK riders in TRial GP, not gb, and as 2021 is only 2 weeks away anyone who is sponsored will have that in place, but come back and prove me wrong when youre ready.

 

So lets take Cabestany, has he left trial GP when he dropped a few places?

Fuji?

Graterolla has dropped a class not a few places. Are these still riding?

Jack Price hasnt dropped a few places, but he's left, how does that fit your view?

 

Explain how an elite sportsman in any sport, sponsored or not could compete and keep a 9-5 job?

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9 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

My reference above was for UK riders in TRial GP, not gb, and as 2021 is only 2 weeks away anyone who is sponsored will have that in place, but come back and prove me wrong when youre ready.

 

So lets take Cabestany, has he left trial GP when he dropped a few places?

Fuji?

Graterolla has dropped a class not a few places. Are these still riding?

Jack Price hasnt dropped a few places, but he's left, how does that fit your view?

 

Explain how an elite sportsman in any sport, sponsored or not could compete and keep a 9-5 job?

For your reference ?since were talking BRITS     well Brits just  leave dont move down a class just leave !  and will 2021 only 2 weeks away will it be a real full championship ?  OR  due to covid 

AS for backing  If they dont have /or get sponsorship people  must feel there NOT good enough to get it  , is that due to too many riders getting bigged up by family and friends  in turn them riders expect sponsorship ?

AS for Cabestany DID he not move to gasgas electric ? after a gap  leaving/pushed from  sherco,   &  Graterolla dropping down a class  is doing better now in trial 2 than he ever would in  GP     NOW both are  WTC Champions and what dose that bring  £s and sponsorship  !  

Fuji  as the number 2 rider in the team he can and dose beat a lot of other teams number 1 riders so hes doing his job !   HRC seem happy with him to pay him 

All the names you point out have 1 thing in common they  are well  established and PROVEN  with teams and sponsorship,  and over the years  been  making friends/sponsors   dropping down the ranks & moving class but still there !

 A elite sportsman MAKEs HIS OR HER LIVING from that sport ,so there going in  to that sport as ive said  "entitled/expecting" to make there living from it  BUT if trials is a AMATURE  sport " thats a good career choice !"   my point exactly they dont have  a  9-5 job so there expecting to make a living from trials !!

Now Jack Price how long in full wtc ? so not well established /not proven & not made a massive impact at wtc level

Edited by on it

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3 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

give us a list (excluding 2020) of the WTC events you've visited in the last few years?

To turn this around, can you list WTC events that aren't huge step, pause, huge step - repeat ? Those would be the ones I'd be interested in.

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12 minutes ago, b40rt said:

To turn this around, can you list WTC events that aren't huge step, pause, huge step - repeat ? Those would be the ones I'd be interested in.

AND more to the point marked correctly !! NON STOP your having a laugh ! that will be at WTC & BTC

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We know who likes twin shock and no stop. 

We know who likes modern bikes and long distance trials

We know who likes stop permitted.

Because we are all guilty of re stating the same beliefs over and over again. Its been going on within these forums for years and we are no further forward.

Given the choice would you rather trials ceased as a sport than accept a set of rules which are not your preference?

I only ask as while we continue to debate, with conviction that we are correct, the average age of a trials rider in the UK increases year by year. When the average age of the rider is 60 who is going to observe, who is going to set out events.

Ok some dont like btc / wtc I get that and in terms of section quality I tend to agree the world rounds could be better. But we need to change our sport into something that appeals to more young people or it dies with us.

Skate parks are full of kids on scooters, bmx bikes skate boards etc doing tricks. Imagine walking up to them and pointing out a momentary stop....People have changed,  young people are not attracted to strict application of rules. Something like the points system at Cahors may appeal to them ? A different branch of the sport but if they bought bikes and kit that would be a success.

Move on from the petty squabbling,  its not getting "us" as in trials anywhere.

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2 hours ago, baldilocks said:

We know who likes twin shock and no stop. 

We know who likes modern bikes and long distance trials

We know who likes stop permitted.

Because we are all guilty of re stating the same beliefs over and over again. Its been going on within these forums for years and we are no further forward.

Given the choice would you rather trials ceased as a sport than accept a set of rules which are not your preference?

I only ask as while we continue to debate, with conviction that we are correct, the average age of a trials rider in the UK increases year by year. When the average age of the rider is 60 who is going to observe, who is going to set out events.

Ok some dont like btc / wtc I get that and in terms of section quality I tend to agree the world rounds could be better. But we need to change our sport into something that appeals to more young people or it dies with us.

Skate parks are full of kids on scooters, bmx bikes skate boards etc doing tricks. Imagine walking up to them and pointing out a momentary stop....People have changed,  young people are not attracted to strict application of rules. Something like the points system at Cahors may appeal to them ? A different branch of the sport but if they bought bikes and kit that would be a success.

Move on from the petty squabbling,  its not getting "us" as in trials anywhere.

Not sure if change is the solution, or the problem ?  Name another sport that has completely contradicted its original concept to appease the minority ?

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Skiers in the states tried to get the snowboard banned when was first invented. It appears more popular with younger people than skis. Snowboard parks are now common in ski resorts and are far removed from the original concept of who could ski down a hill the quickest.

Now people use skis in the snowboard parks.

You may not be sure change is the answer but the status quo isn't working in terms of young riders or sales for manufacturers. Football and F1 continually  change their rules. I would argue the original concept of reliability trials was just to see if the bike got round the course. Sections as we know them were not the original concept.

No minority group insists on playing with a 1960s ball or boots. Nobody turns up at an F1 track in a 1980 ferrari and then asks for the rules to be reversed back to how they were when the car was competitive. 

As a minority sport setting off in different directions has been a mistake. The original concept of pre 65 being cheaper is long gone and people now invest modern bike sums in bikes made by factories that no longer exist.

Our splinter groups need to reform back into a single group with an acceptance of others under a ser of rules that can be reliably observed with sections to suit. So not no stop with turns you can't get round for example.

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2 hours ago, baldilocks said:

Skiers in the states tried to get the snowboard banned when was first invented. It appears more popular with younger people than skis. Snowboard parks are now common in ski resorts and are far removed from the original concept of who could ski down a hill the quickest.

But they don't compete against each other in competition, do they ?

Quote

Football and F1 continually  change their rules. I would argue the original concept of reliability trials was just to see if the bike got round the course. Sections as we know them were not the original concept.

Football - never heard of her ! 

F1 - classic example of changing the rules and ruining the sport.

Were there not "special tests" from the beginning ?  Blackford Hill on ssdt Saturday had the stop and restart "section" in the 70's.

Quote

No minority group insists on playing with a 1960s ball or boots.

Don't think anyone argues against modern shocks or tyres, do they ?

 Nobody turns up at an F1 track in a 1980 ferrari and then asks for the rules to be reversed back to how they were when the car was competitive. 

Goodwood for Ferrari etc, that I would attend.

Quote

As a minority sport setting off in different directions has been a mistake. The original concept of pre 65 being cheaper is long gone and people now invest modern bike sums in bikes made by factories that no longer exist.

That ship has long sailed.

Quote

Our splinter groups need to reform back into a single group with an acceptance of others under a ser of rules that can be reliably observed with sections to suit. So not no stop with turns you can't get round for example.

This would be similar to "reforming" all sports using a ball into a single group ?

Edited by b40rt

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16 hours ago, motorcycleemptyness said:

None Andrew , and mostly for all the reasons i've listed ! 

So its ok to slag off WTC but youve never actually been, thats a bit daft.

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1 minute ago, Intotrials said:

Maybe a split, as suggested previously - Trials & Extreme Trials? Since the sport is already divided maybe making it official will help?

As i showed above, bu not going to wtc doesnt make you an expert in wtc. I doubt there is anything to be gained by splitting trials anymore, some would say Xtrial is extreme anyway?

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5 minutes ago, nigel dabster said:

As i showed above, bu not going to wtc doesnt make you an expert in wtc. I doubt there is anything to be gained by splitting trials anymore, some would say Xtrial is extreme anyway?

Yes, indoor maybe but maybe outdoor as well? The WTC is already extreme just by its nature maybe the only evolution for the survival of trials in general is to split it off? I'm thinking of ways to make it appealing to the youngsters without also losing the tradition. 

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22 hours ago, on it said:

For your reference ?since were talking BRITS     well Brits just  leave dont move down a class just leave !  and will 2021 only 2 weeks away will it be a real full championship ?  OR  due to covid 

AS for backing  If they dont have /or get sponsorship people  must feel there NOT good enough to get it  , is that due to too many riders getting bigged up by family and friends  in turn them riders expect sponsorship ?

AS for Cabestany DID he not move to gasgas electric ? after a gap  leaving/pushed from  sherco,   &  Graterolla dropping down a class  is doing better now in trial 2 than he ever would in  GP     NOW both are  WTC Champions and what dose that bring  £s and sponsorship  !  

Fuji  as the number 2 rider in the team he can and dose beat a lot of other teams number 1 riders so hes doing his job !   HRC seem happy with him to pay him 

All the names you point out have 1 thing in common they  are well  established and PROVEN  with teams and sponsorship,  and over the years  been  making friends/sponsors   dropping down the ranks & moving class but still there !

 A elite sportsman MAKEs HIS OR HER LIVING from that sport ,so there going in  to that sport as ive said  "entitled/expecting" to make there living from it  BUT if trials is a AMATURE  sport " thats a good career choice !"   my point exactly they dont have  a  9-5 job so there expecting to make a living from trials !!

Now Jack Price how long in full wtc ? so not well established /not proven & not made a massive impact at wtc level

youve just avoided admitting you are wrong again, by using loads of different aspects gb when we are taliking GP etc etc.

Your argument/viewpoint is an incoherent shambles and not worth the effort.

 

My main disagereement is your castigation of decent lads riding trials at wtc level, whatever class.

Ive come across hundreds of wtc riders, some arrogant some awkward some cheating riders, but never one from the UK or anywhere who thought the sport owes them a living and you just wont name the riders you say that applies to, I can only assume cos you know your statement was false and wont back track and admit your mistake?

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21 hours ago, b40rt said:

To turn this around, can you list WTC events that aren't huge step, pause, huge step - repeat ? Those would be the ones I'd be interested in.

Most of the Italian rounds arent just steps, poland and portugal are good. France is hit and miss depending on venue, Isola 2000 i liked.

Andorra was one of my favourite events whist it does have steps it also has had streams which could easily be in yorkshire.

Spanish rounds can be fantastic but sometimes it majors on steps. Northern Ireland was one of my favourites, and I'll never forget Unadilla watching Cabestany blowing up the 4 banger sherco.

My all time best? Spa in Belgium for various reasons, closely followed by poland, and Darfo Borario terme.

 

 

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