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Another Tube/Tubeless Question


JonM
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36 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

Looking at the rim I would be sceptical the tubeless will seal on the corrosion.  You can save a bit by using duct tape rather than rim tape - you would need the wide 4" tape for fat MTB on a trials rim, or the proper trials tape (£20 - probably will not seal either).

If you are worried about spokes you might just have to bite the bullet and put a rim on, by which time you are at new wheel stage.

What is the engine like?  It is a very hard decision to make but by the sound of it you are very unhappy with the cycle parts and trying to renovate on the cheap?  I think you have to decide if you are repairing it to resell or to ride.  If the engine is good you might have to come to terms with spending more than you are comfortable with and at least having a basic ride for a year or so.  If you want to resell it stop looking for faults to fix - fit a tube and relist it on eBay.  Thinking you will ride it for a while then break it seems to me to put you in the position of getting the worst of both outcomes.

Chris, I agree on the sealing and also on the logic. 

The bike is rough and with a full rebuild won't be anything but that.

I'm not averse to renovation (my R1 has had a top end rebuild in 2019 and I took the engine out. I also rebuilt the calipers, changed the rad, thermostat, starter relay, rear shock, master cylinder, clip on's and countless other things). I did it because it was fundamentally a good bike and deserved it. (see pic) This Gasgas doesn't! 

Plan is to ride it and enter a few trials. 

I have road raced and raced motocross, so have intentions of taking it further.  

I could cut my losses and sell it, but the engine seems good- starts well, no nasty noises, no smoke etc. 

I'm a set of tyres and a few spokes away from having a rideable bike. (fingers crossed) 

IMG_20200104_170402.jpg

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That's a rather nice Yam.  Sounds like you have got the right idea.  I know how easy it is to get carried away - I bought a Bonneville many years back (the co-operative one) and I loved it.  The front wheel rocked in tune to the engine.  But it was a money pit and was stupid to keep shovelling the cash into it.  I could have bought another bike with what I wasted keeping the thing running.

If the engine is good the gasser is worth a few bob as things stand.  I hope you get it sorted and enjoy it. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm afraid I need to resurrect this thread! 

After everybody's advice I decided to fit a tubeless tyre on the back with a tube, and because I'm trying to keep costs down I bought... 

 

..Vee Rubber.  (I can hear laughter already). 

So b**ger me, the rear is tight. I ended up putting it in my race bike tyre warmer and using copious amounts of Putoline tyre lube. 

Once on, however, it won't seat. 

Probably a quarter of the tyre won't meet the rim wall, it stays in the centre channel. If I deflate and lift the bead out of the channel, it then pulls 'tight' elsewhere and that part of the bead drops into the channel. 

Am I doing something wrong or is it my budget Vee Rubber tyre? 

IMG_20210204_223627.jpg

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I worked up to 60psi over various cycles of inflating, deflating, using levers to encourage the bead over the inner lip & repeating. 

Inevitably I just end up 'chasing' the unseated part around the rim. 

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6 hours ago, JonM said:

I worked up to 60psi over various cycles of inflating, deflating, using levers to encourage the bead over the inner lip & repeating. 

Inevitably I just end up 'chasing' the unseated part around the rim.

Try a different lube. I take it the valve core is out ? I've heard of people using quite a bit more psi.  (check max psi on tyre)

I'm assuming your using a decent sized compressor ?

 

Edited by b40rt
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Thanks guys.

The valve core is still in place and I'm using only a foot pump, but as there's a tube I didn't think that'd matter? 

(my understanding is that a compressor blows in enough air to force the bead to seal whilst inflating tubeless. Because this is tubed I wouldn't have thought inflation speed/rate mattered?) 

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I would be cautious.  The tyre should seat at 60psi.  That is a lot.  Much more and the shock could quite literality destroy either the tyre or the rim.  You could easily hurt yourself in the process.

Assuming enough lubrication the tyre should seat properly with or without a tube.  Sometimes it takes a few seconds and it can help just to tap (gently) round the tyre with a rubber mallet.  Washing up liquid is OK if you don't have tyre soap.

If you struggled to get the tyre on it does sound to me like it is a bit too tight and this is the issue.  The tyre should seat at a much lower psi.  https://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/mechanical-repair/wheel-and-tyres.htm#re-inflation-of-pneumatic

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2 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

I would be cautious.  The tyre should seat at 60psi.  That is a lot.  Much more and the shock could quite literality destroy either the tyre or the rim.  You could easily hurt yourself in the process.

Assuming enough lubrication the tyre should seat properly with or without a tube.  Sometimes it takes a few seconds and it can help just to tap (gently) round the tyre with a rubber mallet.  Washing up liquid is OK if you don't have tyre soap.

If you struggled to get the tyre on it does sound to me like it is a bit too tight and this is the issue.  The tyre should seat at a much lower psi.  https://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/mechanical-repair/wheel-and-tyres.htm#re-inflation-of-pneumatic

Thanks, Chris. 

The tyre (& rim) is lubed with Putoline tyre soap, applied generously and was heated with a tyre warmer used for racing motorcycles. 

It's been bounced, hit with a mallet and left overnight at 60psi.

I've trimmed the rim tape to ensure the tyre bead isn't binding on that and done my best to get it positioned 'square' before inflation to offer the best chance of the bead getting over the inner rim lip and out to the wall. 

I'll also add that before starting I lightly sanded the rim with emery paper to remove any oxidation, then wire brushed and finally gave it a going over with a coarse polishing wheel on the Dremel. 

I'm not totally green when it comes to this, but am totally stumped- hence wondering is it just a bad tyre? 

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2 hours ago, JonM said:

....

I'm not totally green when it comes to this, but am totally stumped- hence wondering is it just a bad tyre? 

It would stump me too.  Sounds like you have a good handle on it.  Just worried when people suggesting more pressure - the rim is alloy (I assume) so please be careful - we need to look after all fellow motorcyclists.

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29 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

It would stump me too.  Sounds like you have a good handle on it.  Just worried when people suggesting more pressure - the rim is alloy (I assume) so please be careful - we need to look after all fellow motorcyclists.

Given up and ordered Michelins! 

 

When they arrive next week we'll know if it's the tyre or my technique. 

BTW. I'll still have this Vee Rubber rear so if anybody gets any ideas feel free to share! 

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29 minutes ago, guy53 said:

Is the rim clean?

Guy

Hi Guy, 

The rim is old but as clean as I can get it. 

It's been rubbed over with emery, wire brushed and Dremel polished with an abrasive. 

Any burrs or edges I took back and smoothed. 

The tyre not seating occurs at different points around the rim, as opposed to there being one 'problem area'. 

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I have gone 80 to 100 several times through the years. But do it safely. I put the tire outside my shop, long hose with the clip type to hold it on the valve stem. I use a valve to control it and after it pops on I release the pressure before I get near it.

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