Many opinions regarding non stop pre season. Thought I'd post a link to a vid from today.

If you where the observer and followed the FIM rules (non stop), what would YOU give fujigas in these sections??

To avoid interpretation, here are the crystal clear rules -

Edited April 27, 201313 yr by andy
Fixed video links

According to the results he was given a 1 for the first video and a 1 for the second video.

the first one is maybe a bit borderline,the second is a 5 all day long !!!

wouldn`t fancy observing this,would you ?

Second video is a good example of how a crowd can possibly influence an observer's decision when they rapturously shout and applaud what they perceive a clean. No-one shouts 5 at the 20 second mark when he blatantly stops of his own accord and hops and bounces into position.

First video at around 38s is a good example of how not being able to stop and regain control when you've mistimed or misjudged a part of a section puts you just a little off line and nearly takes a mark to regain control. Fuji does stop here to avoid running right off line but it is very quick, quick enough for him to get away with it. As twinshockdude said, borderline, so you'd give the benefit of the doubt.

As all the sections are (or should be) filmed these days, it wouldn't be too hard to resolve any disputes over issues like this afterwards. There's nothing there that I haven't seen happen in a classic trial...

fives for both he clearly stopped in both videos

I know its being pedantic but I think part of the problem is how they have defined the new set up. 'No stop' sort of suggests that if the bike is moving (i.e. being hopped from side to side etc) its ok. In the 'old days' you had to maintain forward motion within the section. By defining it as 'No Stop' I think they are giving the riders a get out clause. Fuji did clearly stop momentarily in both sections.

Being an old codger the wrong side of 50 who never learnt the art of hopping (or any sort of art) I do hark back to the old days but I have to admit I don't think these new rules will solve anything. If the aim is make it more of a level playing field I think they need to look at the spec of the bikes, maybe try different tyres or something like that.

Jeez - would not want to observe now ! 1st so-so, 2nd probably had 3 fives ?!? Anyways, I guess if I punched a 5 both rider and minder would be giving out the grief !! No thanks

The f I m video is an eye opener and even to the most experienced trials fan rider or observer must be regarded as definitive. ....why else would they and the riders go to the trouble of making the film. I have to conclude that as an observer I am not likely to to be as discerning in the moment it takes to decide if it was as stop or not. And to be consistent for x number of riders over y number of laps ! Z number of days etc etc .spiffing good film on a difficult topic thoough.

This is the problem everyone knew would happen. Both rides were, technically, fives. But if you fived every rider that rode in such a way, you would have a ridiculous amount of maximums, a bunch of p@ssed off riders, lower entries, and less spectators.

In my opinion, I wouldn't have fived either ride. Simply because it would have been way too harsh, and not a true reflection of the riders efforts.

But where do you draw the line? Well that's just it, you can't. Which is why I think no stop just won't work. There is just too much of a grey area.

I don't see what was wrong with the old rules. And if they want to change them...why not try something like harsher penalties for running over time?

If I rider was given a 5 for running out of time, he or she is damn sure going to do their best to ride the section as fast as possible!

Don't get me wrong, I like no stop rules. They work very well in most trials that I ride, but the sections are very different to most world round sections, and the stakes just aren't as high!

Just my opinion.

FWIW one for the first video but very very borderline but would have given him the benefit of the doubt but most certainly a resounding 5 for the second vid blatant disregard for the idea of no stop.

I think a philospohy to follow is

A - fundamentally the sections are there to take the marks - not over zelaous observing

B- unless you are 100% sure the riders has stopped then give benefit of the doubt.

C- observe and ride in the spirit of the rules - ie if riders dont take the mickey and try a flowing ride take any momentary pause in the spirit of the rules.If the riders stop and hops then a more black and white approach is more justified. But fundamentally be consistant.

And before those start saying rules are rules and any split second stop should be a five just read the old rules and see how much leaway was given to going backwards, hopping side ways when stationary etc..

Main key to anything is point A above = have sections to take marks that suit the rules in place.

In response to original question - video 1 looks fine, Video 2 looks marginal

The video is a bit crappy running on a Mac, (usual weird Mac and 'Flash' conflicts) but from what I could see I would have given Fuji a 1 on the first vid (benefit of the doubt) but certainly a 5 on the second, no question.

5 definately on the second section, once you get to allowing stopping like this its not no stop.

the marks are the same participation is down whats the point?

I'd say a ! on the first vid and a 5 on the second ... And I will be observing in tenn ...

And I started out riding no- stop ...

Glenn

Pause, Hesitation or STOP? 500 millisecond rule?

The time limits will take care of most that, yet I would have likely given him a 5 in the second vid, not because of the pause, but the fact he moved the rear sideways while doing it, and without forward motion. This is a no-no!!!!!

I still believe stop for 5 in the harsh sense is too much, and was meant to refer to the obsticles, not the setup on flat ground, yet as stated, a pause on flat ground for a setup with a side hop and no forward effort is too much.

In the first vid th creeps ever so slow at times, with hop, for the most I can live with that.

M2C