The write-ups are quite technical, but maybe some here will be interested.

This link is the actual retrofit process: https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/em-5-7/sx-controller-retrofit

This link describes some preliminary work to familiarize myself with the SX controller: https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/em-5-7/sx-controller-experiments

Great stuff and very interesting.  Above my pay grade on the electronics. How I wish we lived near to oneanother.

The regen on the throttle is very interesting - that would be a game changer for a lot of people that I can think of.  I agree on your observation about the clutch as well - it is a weak point on the newer bikes I think - our Factor-e is not outstanding in the clutch operation.  I would turn off the tickover for myself but the wife likes it.

We had booked to ride with Gael who was one of the development riders but his recent injuries stopped him from being able to do the training.  Hopefully that opportunity will come up again.  I would love to go through some of this with him (it will help improve my French as well......)

I'm curious about some of the programming used on these bikes. I just got a 2024 pure sport with diaphragm clutch and the 3 mode settings. But I'm used to a bike I built and posted here years ago that uses a Perm brushed motor and an Alltrax 48V 400 amp controller. I am comparing the EM throttle response and general feel to my old 'Digit' I built. The Digit, because its a brushed motor, is by nature always in speed mode, so throttle command is proportional to the motor rpm as opposed to most brushless motors that typically (the EM) operate in torque mode where the throttle command is proportional to the current.

My Digit does not have a clutch but throttle response is very crisp and both splats and wheelies are very predictable and easy to control. The EM however feels really mushy response-wise and its harder for me to control since I'm used to speed mode modulation. Has anyone programmed an EM to operate in speed mode?

I also build street and road race electric bikes and have done so for many years (I'm old). On street bikes, torque mode is more intuitive but for off road use and on my EM, I think that speed mode would be better. Anyone know what I'm babbling about?

 

All of EM's siliXcon controllers are password locked, so only torque mode is possible. 

Back when we first got the 5.7, I experimented with the Kelly controller's "balanced mode" (somehow incorporates both torque and speed modes).  I found it most unintuitive compared with ICE trials bikes, so I did not bother to try speed mode.  See: https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/em-5-7/5-7-controller 

Edited July 26, 20251 yr by konrad

Just curious if this is possible, within reason. I have an old relationship with Phillipe at EM from 2 decades ago and am trying to rekindle that relationship for both humanitarian and access reasons.

17 minutes ago, nostroke said:

Just curious if this is possible, within reason. 

Maybe, maybe not.  EM uses custom siliXcon firmware, and the speed loop routine may have been removed to make space for other code.

https://docs.silixcon.com/docs/fw/modules/esc/driver/command/driver_pid_modes

 

Is it likely that the controller is available direct from siliXcon unprogrammed? Also, I should add that the Perm/ Alltrax package I used, while pretty crude by today's standards, does not use a feedback device although  a brushless could emulate that with its feed back loop I suppose. I'm not a EE but have dabbled with EV controls forever.

Edited July 26, 20251 yr by nostroke

Yes.  Generic controllers are available, but lack some of EM's features.  https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/em-5-7/sx-controller-experiments

 

Oh, OK just read your link, thanks. Looks do-able but there are probably a lot of parameters that I would need from motor mfgr.

Due to the lack of any serious ramp programming on this Alltrax  golf cart controller I used here, I made an audio taper (log) potbox so you have great slow precision on an otherwise sketchy throttle and you get the big splat energy when you wick it open. Almost as good as a clutch overall but way easier to ride IMHO for medium skill level riders (me). Speed  (voltage) mode does not have that time lag that a torque (current) mode has so response is instant.

And I 'll certainly dig deeper into your experiments. Thanks for all that 

.

Edited July 26, 20251 yr by nostroke

I read with interest this topics and what a great amount of info you shared on your website! Thanks Konrad!

I am deciding if to purchase or not a Motion Escape from 2019, the bike comes at a good price but i am worried that the battery will not last long or that will lose efficiency very quickly....

Kokam it out of business...so i started looking online for Pouch 3.7v 25Ah lithium ion batteries to regenerate the battery without having to change or reprogram the BMS .... Do you know any specific brand/models that could be good for the job, just swapping the cells and be good?

 

Thanks

Fabio

Glad to hear you found something useful on the website, Fabio.

My understanding is that the 2019 5.7 was EM's first use of the siliXcon controller.  I assume the controller is password protected, like all later EMs.  But if that's not the case, the 2019 would be quite valuable.  

The battery is always a source of concern.  However, the 5.7's pouch cells do seem to be more “reliable” than cylindrical Li-Ion cells that are now being used. 

I have heard of several 5.7 batteries being rebuilt using cylindrical cells.  Of course the BMS also would need to be replaced.  Battery technology improves quickly, and it would be likely you could now achieve 2x the energy density of the original 5.7 battery.  I have begun researching BMSs for such conversions: https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/ev-tech-101/ant-bms

Thank you for your quick response,

The website is full of valuable info, a lot of it goes beyond my current knowledge of the argument.

I was hoping to find pouch cell with  equivalent features of the original, and have some technician swap the cells and keep all the rest as original. Yet It sounds like this is difficult to achieve and may even be better to find a new BMS and new battery cells . Il would be great to hear of someone has successfully done it, and with which specific BMS/cells. I will contact Enepaq and see if they can provide suitable cells, their BMS seems a lot better than the original one