Well it is a two stroke, and aside from Beta's they're all the same basic layout, and in a minimalist design such as in trials it's going to be hard to have something look noticeably different, However I'm certain it's Greeves own design, things like bolt positions (i.e. on the cylinder heads Greeves have theirs on the outer-edge whereas Sherco have them between the waterways), materials used (Metal instead of plastic on flywheel cover)and other things that take a keen eye to notice... (where's a smiley with dorky glasses when you need one?)

Just glasses for you if you think the greeves looks different to a sherco. wheres the photo?

Just glasses for you if you think the greeves looks different to a sherco. wheres the photo?

Exhibit A: http://www.greevesmotorsport.co.uk/bikes/g...otorsport_3.jpg

..and for reference: http://www.shercousa.com/2007_Sherco_Trials_files/09b_p.jpg

Although the cases are almost identical (hard to make them look unique), the cylinder heads/covers/cooling systems and cylinder inlets are clearly different, no lenses necessary..

Edited August 7, 200917 yr by motodaz

A "blank" top end means little, rest is the same with different covers.

Exhibit A: http://www.greevesmotorsport.co.uk/bikes/g...otorsport_3.jpg

..and for reference: http://www.shercousa.com/2007_Sherco_Trials_files/09b_p.jpg

Although the cases are almost identical (hard to make them look unique), the cylinder heads/covers/cooling systems and cylinder inlets are clearly different, no lenses necessary..

you are joking?

At the 2007 scott trial, there was a lad on a 4rt with the fuel tank under the seat and air box where the tank should be.His bike was also in the TMX, anyone know his name?

you are joking?

I'm saying that I think Greeves have made their own engine (or atleast a lot of it) and they deserve credit for it, of course the casing looks very similar, the internals are likely to be the same as (just about) every two stroke as they house the same basic components. In order to get the lightest possible design it's bound to look similar, don't all pedal bicycles looks the similar? and didn't Sherco use a remarkably similar design to GasGas when they started out? it's not necessarily copying but finding the same solution to a design requirement.

As for Greeves having a ''blank" top end I assume it's due to their different design requirements, they don't have the same tooling and resources to make a more complex design so theirs is simple to make it manufacturable.

I'm saying that I think Greeves have made their own engine (or atleast a lot of it) and they deserve credit for it, of course the casing looks very similar, the internals are likely to be the same as (just about) every two stroke as they house the same basic components. In order to get the lightest possible design it's bound to look similar, don't all pedal bicycles looks the similar? and didn't Sherco use a remarkably similar design to GasGas when they started out? it's not necessarily copying but finding the same solution to a design requirement.

As for Greeves having a ''blank" top end I assume it's due to their different design requirements, they don't have the same tooling and resources to make a more complex design so theirs is simple to make it manufacturable.

Your probably right that greeves has made there own engine, but it is fairly obvious which engine they have copied.

Yes your also right that all modern two strokes have a very similar design layout and there is little difference between them but it looks as though the greeves copied the Sherco engine exactly even down to the bolt hole positions on the casing which for instance you could easily change the position of to make the engine look visually different.

I guess it is the same so they can use a lot of the Sherco components in the engine to reduce the set-up and tooling costs of producing there own, they may have even struck a deal with xispa to use there parts.

Your probably right that greeves has made there own engine, but it is fairly obvious which engine they have copied.

Yes your also right that all modern two strokes have a very similar design layout and there is little difference between them but it looks as though the greeves copied the Sherco engine exactly even down to the bolt hole positions on the casing which for instance you could easily change the position of to make the engine look visually different.

I guess it is the same so they can use a lot of the Sherco components in the engine to reduce the set-up and tooling costs of producing there own, they may have even struck a deal with xispa to use there parts.

Thank goodness someone has seen the same thing I have, the way Daz was talking I thought I was going blind!

Your probably right that greeves has made there own engine, but it is fairly obvious which engine they have copied.

Yes your also right that all modern two strokes have a very similar design layout and there is little difference between them but it looks as though the greeves copied the Sherco engine exactly even down to the bolt hole positions on the casing which for instance you could easily change the position of to make the engine look visually different.

I guess it is the same so they can use a lot of the Sherco components in the engine to reduce the set-up and tooling costs of producing there own, they may have even struck a deal with xispa to use there parts.

Absolutely, it's quite possible that a couple of companies have shared designs for reduced cost/compatibility like car manufacturers do, also it may make it easier for aftermarket component makers, as one design like that of a cover can be used on a series of machines.

Absolutely, it's quite possible that a couple of companies have shared designs for reduced cost/compatibility like car manufacturers do, also it may make it easier for aftermarket component makers, as one design like that of a cover can be used on a series of machines.

All good in theory, yet has Greeves sold a bike? Seems they claimed a lighter motor, as with the others. Personally, I am not sure where exactly one will start trimming the Sherco motor without turning it into a time bomb similar to a gasser. Oh yes, one can trim everything untill it breaks!

One only needs three gears really, 1-2 in the sections, and 3 for the trail! I heard Montesa did that at one time! Just how light do you really want?

The bikes are soo speccalized right now that noone else wants them, not even a farmer!

All good in theory, yet has Greeves sold a bike? Seems they claimed a lighter motor, as with the others. Personally, I am not sure where exactly one will start trimming the Sherco motor without turning it into a time bomb similar to a gasser. Oh yes, one can trim everything untill it breaks!

One only needs three gears really, 1-2 in the sections, and 3 for the trail! I heard Montesa did that at one time! Just how light do you really want?

The bikes are soo speccalized right now that noone else wants them, not even a farmer!

I imagine Greeves is waiting to ride out the 'economic downturn' before placing their bikes on sale, it wouldn't be a good time to start selling an expensive specialized motorcycle, especially as you say, one that is of practical use to very few people.

As for three gears I imagine that would be fine for a high capacity machine with ample pulling power, but I've never been tempted to remove a cog from my 125

I imagine Greeves is waiting to ride out the 'economic downturn' before placing their bikes on sale, it wouldn't be a good time to start selling an expensive specialized motorcycle, especially as you say, one that is of practical use to very few people.

As for three gears I imagine that would be fine for a high capacity machine with ample pulling power, but I've never been tempted to remove a cog from my 125

Daz, patronizing this may be but listen and read what is above peps are talking sense here. You cannot dismiss the fact the greeves is a copy of the sherco just as the Xispa is. Greeves have not spent

Daz, patronizing this may be but listen and read what is above peps are talking sense here. You cannot dismiss the fact the greeves is a copy of the sherco just as the Xispa is. Greeves have not spent

I'm not really arguing against these statements, I'm just saying that I think Greeves has gone to a fair bit of trouble to make a bike (unique or not) and I just want to show a little bit of support for a company that will likely struggle regardless of whatever happens, as for Scorpa in my mind they were a successful company and where I've ridden they are quite popular and look like great bikes, this is just my opinion of course and I'm sorry if I've said anything above myself.

Success, chapter 11 and bankruptcy do not fit together.

Success, chapter 11 and bankruptcy do not fit together.

Nigel, I'm not disagreeing with you here, notice the tense of the sentence of which you are referring to...