Just brought of ebay. I think its a Saracen. Any information gratefully received.

 

Les

I think it is a Cotton Starmaker trials bike, not sure what the model was called but i have seen Cotton fitted with the leading spindle MP forks before.

Seem to recall reading that Cotton made the AJS 37a trials as well, the frame is very Cotton looking but with AJS similarities so presumably late 1960s?

DMW also made a Starmaker engined trials bike just to add to the mix but they all used similar components.

Edited October 11, 20169 yr by trialsrfun

according to the reg its listed on DVLA as a DMW?

 

I was going to have a bid on that, you beat me to it!   

Edited October 11, 20169 yr by suzuki250

Thanks for the replys so far. The bike has been looked at by Mick Parkes ( ex DMW ), he is not convinced it is a DMW which is a shame as if it was it would be a wonderful piece of history. My late Farther worked for many years fro Harold Nock and spent some time at the Valley Road works. I have washed decades of mud and grime of the bike and it looks in remarkably good condition with very little sign of use. Not sure how rideable it will be but all being well it will have a canter in a few BMCA trials later in the season, when I have got it sorted.

The muffler/silencer part of the exhaust looks remarkably like an Bultaco part. (Model 49/80 1970/72 period) Probably not original to this bike.

 

Stuart

Bit of a mystery but I think trialsrfun is on the right track.

 

Tank-seat looks like Dalesman enduro, forks??, frame looks very Cotton-ish except for swingarm which looks Rickman-ish or AJS. Never seen chain adjustment at swingarm pivot on a Cotton tho. Wheels/hubs Japanese?

 

Perhaps a modified/bitza Cotton Trials Starmaker?

 

As far as I know Saracen never made a Villiers engined bike.

 

Looks very interesting tho.

Edited October 15, 20169 yr by jc2

I had spotted the Dalesman tank but jc2's comment about the chain adjustment makes me think AJS for the frame. I seem to recall they had such a system for tensioning the chain.

Didn't Rickman , and maybe Penton do that way back when ???

Rickman did their adjustment that way Penton we never had here in the UK. There is something about the build of the bike that shouts Cotton who I believe made the AJS frames possibly at the time the end of the Villiers era some models were produced in penny numbers or even individually to order.

Maybe Villiers Services have a list of when engines were produced and the customer it went to or if you could contact Colin Dommett he might know more he was closely involved with Cotton motorcycles at one time.

Hi TRF, asking Steve at Villiers Services sounds a good idea, I will give him a shout.. Bike mostly in pieces now, very little signs of use, probably because of the large hole in the back of the primary chaincase and the resulting pint of water in there!!! Also two broken springs in the gearbox so full rebuild for the engine, get it running and see what it rides like before I decide on the restoration of the rolling chassis.. Still waiting for a new V5 which may shed some light on its history. Thanks for all the replies, keep em coming

 

 

..it does look remarkably Saracen like

Hmm, yes you may have nailed it westyfield; frame & swingarm do look remarkably similar

 

Edited April 12, 20179 yr by jc2
typo

I realize this is an old post, but would be interested to know how you made out with your search. Wouldn't the frame be nickle plated if it were a Saracen? I have a Saracen Trials bike and the frame and swingarm are nickle plated. The frame in the picture from westyfield7 appears to be painted. Were some frames plated and others not? Or could it be the plating was deteriorating and they painted over it? The rear frame loop looks different between the Saracen and the bike in question also.

Hi Gordo, cant be much help Im afraid, my frame painted silver but there is some evidence of nickel plating under the paint on the swinging arm. Im confident my frame is a Saracen but would be hard pressed to prove it!

Just stumbled on this post but here goes, Cheeter (?) or Cheeta frame (Mick Whitlock I think)unsure about tank seat unit. All Cheetas had Villiers engines and the frames were eithe chromed or nickel plated, they really looke the part and I’m sure that the swing arm was concentric adjustment. Or maybe you have a Scrambles/MX bike that’s been converted to trials hence the long ride seat and tank unit! Have you thought about tracking the Starmaker engine number, Villiers Services may be able to help here; these were I am sure intended for road racing and scrambling, don’t think they were very highly thought of for trials work, don’t quote me here! Let us know what you found out?

Edited March 28, 20188 yr by section swept