Play nice Children!!

Think its been 1st gear on Yam monos, Mont 315 and 4rt for majority of SSDT sections -even Garbh bhein. Think only camasnocroise - on peninsula starting from the road was 3rd flat out

Accurate lines with sharp acceleration I think is the trick even on early days. 

I think the point is that modern tyres and suspension permit the use of techniques that might not have been so successful in Miller's day.  Thus spracklers such as myself can get away with using first to keep the speed to a level where we feel in control but still get up such steps as we have the ability to ride.

Dadof no other motorsport is relevant to this conversation. People who have ridden in the event in recent times are contributing and trying to answer the original question using their personal experience. However you appear to be quoting Sammy Miller from a different era with different sections and different bikes and implying this is better advice and we are all wrong.

Let it go.

 

Having ridden a couple of SSDT's ? I will give you my two pennath from 3 decades?

From the 80's on twin shocks, 90's on air cooled mono's to the current pogo sticks the theme for the SSDT has been the same for me as a clubby. Standard gearing on all of these bikes 1st has tended to be too low and 2nd too high for 99% of the sections so have have muddled with sprockets to get a first gear in between standard gearing?

Pointless asking the top 20 in the trial what gear they are riding this section in because they would often ride in second. Does this mean it is a better gear to use absolutely for them because they have the skill to use that higher gear.

Same at club level I have often asked riders what gear they rode that section in 2nd seems to be the thing?

Agree with Jimmy 1st on every section in the SSDT even Camasnacroise for me singing in 1st for the first 20metres ? 

Edited January 12, 20179 yr by gizza5

16 hours ago, baldilocks said:

Dadof no other motorsport is relevant to this conversation. People who have ridden in the event in recent times are contributing and trying to answer the original question using their personal experience. However you appear to be quoting Sammy Miller from a different era with different sections and different bikes and implying this is better advice and we are all wrong.

Let it go.

 

@dadof2 @dadof 2 listen to someone that has been there and done it!

220bhp wtf has that to do with trials?

cars with traction control ditto? Mx short shift into a non power band  whats that to do with trials...shall i go on???

The reason I mentioned 220 BHP is because you inferred that what I was saying was incorrect because trials bikes have more power than in the 1970s, You will get more traction and stability in a higher gear no matter what the power output.

Perhaps one of the reasons for Millers outstanding success, not just at trials but also at road racing and MX was because he understood how to find traction and one of his methods of doing this was to pull a higher gear.

As I said previously its the laws of physics / mechanics and those same laws apply to MX F1 etc and that is why they shortshift, thereby lowering the engine revs for a given speed, exactly the same as running a higher gear in trials, to lessen the chance of loosing traction.

If you look back at the original post he states that he is struggling in first gear yet notes that Dan Thorpe who is going better is using second. That observation sums up what I have been saying.

The lower the gear they greater the torque being applied at the tire contact patch, the higher the torque (force on the joint) the more likely that joint is to give way.

wrong again. laws of physics are all well and good and this typifies your ridiculous arguments because whilst in a given circumstance some things may be

true when you add in throttle control human reaction to imput and slippery changing terrain rough ground steps etc to say carte blanche that a higher gear is better is simply daft.

As an example.

Drag strip. morris minor and top fuel dragster. which spins its wheels?

Edited January 15, 20179 yr by nigel dabster

So getting back to trials, this is why quite often people say that tlr 200's grip really well, because they have no (sharp?) power.

easier to control easier for a less skilled rider to find grip.

 

@dadof 2 @dadof2 do you know anything about trials at all?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1060620224012550&set=a.503760209698557.1073741826.100001937480595&type=3&theater

when it's not your day it's not your day, 1st or 2nd

 

ps I've been up this in both 1st & 2nd

Ok two questions. 

 

If I put a 14t gearbox sprocket on my Gas Gas will I be any nearer to Toni Bou in terms of results?

If I'm stuck in the snow in my car, at a standstill on a hill, should I try and pull away in 1st or 6th gear ?

Better riders can ride second as they are in control of the situation and online most of the time. However they don't ride ssdt sections in 4th....

You have to ride the bike at the speed that suits you not the trial winner. If you can't keep up with the speed of the bike you won't be on line for long. Laggan lochs is one of the very few traditional sections left where the line is less important as everything is loose and moves rider to rider. That kind of section most will ride in second.

That's my last post to you on this subject dadof. You're not riding and it's not even your question. 

Good luck Africa Jon, hope you enjoy the best trial in the world. 

 

" If I'm stuck in the snow in my car, at a standstill on a hill, should I try and pull away in 1st or 6th gear ? "

Neither... 2nd definitely, maybe third if you have big engine and more torque.

 

Thank you for all the replies!  So as I am crap 1st it is, until I get good then 2nd. Got it!

Thanks for the encouragement Baldilocks, rode it last year and it has got its hooks into me that is for sure. 

The best gear for the ssdt is something WARM and WATERPROOF. Take a spare set too.

On 09/01/2017 at 8:19 PM, baldilocks said:

Most of the very good riders use second all the time, I find it much too tiring and I end up going to fast everywhere.

I think the very good riders use hardly any throttle but make better use of timing and suspension. The different bikes are also geared different, second on a Beta is much lower than second on a GG.

If you can use second and you get better results then do so but for most of us 1st works.

I pretty well agree 100% with what you have written above and it says pretty well the same as I posted so i am surprised at the tone of some of your later posts. Even Nigel (who pretty well disagrees with me on anything) points out that a TLR 200 grips because it has little power. This illustrates the point I was making which is that at any given speed a the higher the gear the less power is being transmitted to the ground and therfore the less likely is loss of traction. I was in a section queue at a centre trial, with a previous SSDT winner and as I was on the same bike I asked him what gear he was using. I was thinking 3rd would be best unless I got into trouble, in which case second would probably be the easiest to keep going. He did not tell me which gear but said that whenever you are not sure of the gear to use choose the higher one.

From what africajohn had posted it looks like most of his practicing is on dry grippy sections, where first may well be the preferred gear. Most of my riding is on sections very similar to the SSDT and based on that my advice remains practice as much as you can on slippy rivers using second, if you can master it it will be to your advantage. 

What is the best way / gear to ride a section is not the same as how any given rider should ride a section when they are tired or lacking confidence.

5 hours ago, dadof2 said:

I pretty well agree 100% with what you have written above and it says pretty well the same as I posted so i am surprised at the tone of some of your later posts. Even Nigel (who pretty well disagrees with me on anything) points out that a TLR 200 grips because it has little power. This illustrates the point I was making which is that at any given speed a the higher the gear the less power is being transmitted to the ground and therfore the less likely is loss of traction. I was in a section queue at a centre trial, with a previous SSDT winner and as I was on the same bike I asked him what gear he was using. I was thinking 3rd would be best unless I got into trouble, in which case second would probably be the easiest to keep going. He did not tell me which gear but said that whenever you are not sure of the gear to use choose the higher one.

From what africajohn had posted it looks like most of his practicing is on dry grippy sections, where first may well be the preferred gear. Most of my riding is on sections very similar to the SSDT and based on that my advice remains practice as much as you can on slippy rivers using second, if you can master it it will be to your advantage. 

What is the best way / gear to ride a section is not the same as how any given rider should ride a section when they are tired or lacking confidence.

Either you are blind or stupid, no one is saying the same as you they are saying the opposite.

Clearly you have no understanding of trials as every section is different and to say across the board second is better in ssdt  (0r a higher gear) is so ridiculous its laughable.