17 minutes ago, jon v8 said:

The only thing I would add to this thread is about Aspen fuel, I use it in my chainsaws because it does not wreck my at least 30 year old kit. But mostly because the fumes from it are much less toxic than from ordinary pump  fuel. I used to get terrible headaches from chainsaw fumes after as little as 20 minutes sawing in still conditions. Since using Aspen I don't get them at all. I still have a couple of tree surgeon customers who use it because they have a duty of care to their employees. They are worried about asbestos type comebacks on their insurance, plus they don't want headaches either. I understand that the HSE have approved its use for petrol engined wacker plates in railway tunnels. Which helped Network rail and their contractors no end because previously they had banned them.

Why don't they just use electric ones? Like from Stihl or Husqvarna? (Husqvarna do battery version also)

Aspen seems to me to be "A Good Thing" (I agree about the fumes jon).  The problem for modern bikes is it is only 95 octane.  There is a "racing" version but I cannot see it advertised in the UK.   Demon Tweeks have a non Ethanol 99 fuel "R Racing" thirty quid for ten litres.

I wonder how many modern bikes actually need rather than just specify higher than 95 octane, there's quite a range of compression ratios starting as low as 8.9:1, there are other factors but shouldn't 95 octane be ok for at least 11:1

 heres my 10p worth  E5/E10 might be fine in a car/ grass cutter etc any 4 stroke for that matter  BUT a 2 stroke is a fuel oil mix ,using mineral /synthetic oil  nether will mix with a vegetable based oil FACT  and as ethornal is vegetable (corn) based  this might be a problem ?  if its not a problem for you or you dont mind spending £30 for aspen or race fuel ? crack on ! But  i think i will carry on removing it at a cost of 0£s just 10 mins of my time,Ive found both my bikes run better with it removed ! 

Ethanol isn't a vegetable based oil it's a distillate of fermented vegetable matter.

Removing ethanol lowers the octane rating of the fuel, which would be ok in many but not all bikes.

Mixing is a consideration but it doesn't appear to be a problem, the can of e10 that I mixed with rock oil strawberry did not separate. (for now I'm hedging my bets with e5 but when the panic buying happened for a few days I could only get e10)

Edited January 6, 20224 yr by totty79

41 minutes ago, on it said:

 heres my 10p worth  E5/E10 might be fine in a car/ grass cutter etc any 4 stroke for that matter  BUT a 2 stroke is a fuel oil mix ,using mineral /synthetic oil  nether will mix with a vegetable based oil FACT  and as ethornal is vegetable (corn) based  this might be a problem ?  if its not a problem for you or you dont mind spending £30 for aspen or race fuel ? crack on ! But  i think i will carry on removing it at a cost of 0£s just 10 mins of my time,Ive found both my bikes run better with it removed ! 

Ethanol is not a vegetable oil.  It is alcohol.

If you remove ethanol from the blended pump fuel you change it to an unknown which may be OK or it might screw up the engine.  Not wise IMHO.

28 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

Ethanol is not a vegetable oil.  It is alcohol.

 

30 minutes ago, totty79 said:

Ethanol isn't a vegetable based oil it's a distillate of fermented vegetable matter.

is it made from  a vegetable  (corn ) yes or no?  if my bikes run clean ,crisp ,cooler and with no detonation  ill keep running without it in my fuel thanks as i said my 10p worth  

4 hours ago, vfr800ch said:

Why don't they just use electric ones? Like from Stihl or Husqvarna? (Husqvarna do battery version also)

For the same reason we don't have electric 44ton trucks, the batteries are nowhere near there yet. The electric chainsaws are small domestic use types.

1 hour ago, on it said:

 

is it made from  a vegetable  (corn ) yes or no?  if my bikes run clean ,crisp ,cooler and with no detonation  ill keep running without it in my fuel thanks as i said my 10p worth  

Yes it is made from a vegetable source, but that's irrelevant. Crude oil started as rotting vegetation millions of years ago. The point is that ethanol is an alcohol (it's the alcohol in booze) and not an oil. There are some types of synthetic rubber that are resistant to the normal petroleum distillates in petrol but they don't resist ethanol well. Those rubbers may have been perfectly acceptable when there was no ethanol in petrol. They would have been specced and tested with the fuels current at the time.

2 hours ago, on it said:

 

is it made from  a vegetable  (corn ) yes or no?  if my bikes run clean ,crisp ,cooler and with no detonation  ill keep running without it in my fuel thanks as i said my 10p worth  

Yes, but I'm not sure of the point of the question? I only pointed out that ethanol is not vegetable oil, just a simple correction.

Nor have I tried to dissuade you from removing ethinol. I even listed it as one of the options and stated that the reduction in octane would be ok for most bikes.

19 hours ago, jon v8 said:

The only thing I would add to this thread is about Aspen fuel, I use it in my chainsaws because it does not wreck my at least 30 year old kit. But mostly because the fumes from it are much less toxic than from ordinary pump  fuel. I used to get terrible headaches from chainsaw fumes after as little as 20 minutes sawing in still conditions. Since using Aspen I don't get them at all. I still have a couple of tree surgeon customers who use it because they have a duty of care to their employees. They are worried about asbestos type comebacks on their insurance, plus they don't want headaches either. I understand that the HSE have approved its use for petrol engined wacker plates in railway tunnels. Which helped Network rail and their contractors no end because previously they had banned them.

Jon I'm wondering if the "ELF Indoor Racing Fuel" (which we can get here) is as good as the Aspen (which we can't get here) for people's health because apparently that ELF fuel is designed to reduce the toxicity of the exhaust fumes when indoor racing karts and MX bikes.

15 minutes ago, feetupfun said:

Jon I'm wondering if the "ELF Indoor Racing Fuel" (which we can get here) is as good as the Aspen (which we can't get here) for people's health because apparently that ELF fuel is designed to reduce the toxicity of the exhaust fumes when indoor racing karts and MX bikes.

Aspen is a trade name for a brand of alkylate fuel.  https://www.aspenfuels.com/knowledge/knowledgebank/what-is-alkylate-petrol/

48 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

Aspen is a trade name for a brand of alkylate fuel.  https://www.aspenfuels.com/knowledge/knowledgebank/what-is-alkylate-petrol/

Yes and I wish I could buy it here. There is no Australian Importer

5 hours ago, feetupfun said:

Jon I'm wondering if the "ELF Indoor Racing Fuel" (which we can get here) is as good as the Aspen (which we can't get here) for people's health because apparently that ELF fuel is designed to reduce the toxicity of the exhaust fumes when indoor racing karts and MX bikes.

This stuff  -  https://www.elfcompetition.com/produits/cs23005_uk.pdf    Mmm, I'm no chemist, but I guess its heading toward the same goal. The specs don't really give much away...

I've run E10 petrol in my KT250 for years no problem. But I also rebuilt the motor (using std hydraulic industrial rotary shaft seals) back in 2013, and have no problems. fuel line that i use is polyeurethane airline tube from SMC, and was expecting to be frequently replacing it, but am still on the first tube. Its colour has faded a bit, but no more than when used as airline. I guess what I'm saying is try to use compatible materials where possible and plan "end of life servicing" as standard maintenance, and you will have no problems when out riding.