January 21, 200818 yr Dont know how relevant this is but the work i have done on my bike, incidentally i filled the form in honestly, are not to "win" more a case of to make the bike more reliable and enjoable to ride. Plus i have enjoyied engineering and making a lot of it myself. OK Alan did some of the more complicated stuff like the forks but most of it i have done myself. I have no illusions about winning any Trial, those that know me and have seen me ride know there is little chance of that , i just enjoy tinkering improving and having an enjoyable bike to ride. Strangely i remember doing exactly the same when i had a Greeves Scottish and a Sprite back in the 60's so nothing changed there. Suppose there is no answer really and i wouldnt want the organisers job. I've had my say in the past and i tend to agree a lot with Woodies post furtther up. It would have saved me a fortune. Problem is everybody you ask has a different slant on what the elegibility rules should be. You will never ever get agreement plus whatever rules you have it will be nigh on impossible in the real world to police. Who is going to sanction stripping engines etc. With all the resources at the disposal of the FIA they couldnt police Formula one effectively and never will. So wat chance does a Trials Club have? One unrelated thing, well unrelated to Mikes collumn but related to BJ post is why are there so many awards in so many strange caegories? Well best trade supported rider? Best foreign rider ? Best Scotsman ? err why? and why group all bikes together? Perhaps thats why so many cubs applied? Probably a historical reason but i dont remember many Nationals having a Best English rider or Best foreign rider. What is foreign anyway? Not meant as a criticism because i know the Scottish is a one off so perhap thats the answer? Keep it as a one off with it's own customs and traditions however they arrived at them they seem to work i suppose? As for the Twinshock posts. I think the "horse" has already bolted and dissapeared way way over the hill. I regularly see disc braked twinshocks fitted with engines from a totally different period with modified chassis and shock positions T45 frames etc. It's already happened. Never mind the converted monos. Just human nature i'm afraid apart from one exception Just take a look at the Spanish series. They have managed to sort out a set of rules and regs that seem to work very very well. At least for twinshocks anyway. Eh Mr Greeves Edited January 21, 200818 yr by Old trials fanatic
January 21, 200818 yr one change only required - change the '5' to 'unit' the pre unit scottish two day trial I would wager that half of the regular cub/b40/bantam/sprite riders have a matchless or Ariel or Enfield or Triumph twin stashed away at the back of the garage - this would bring them all out, the sections could be straightened out a bit and we would see some real bikes out in anger. I know you will still get the highly engineered bikes but at least they will make a good noise and look great. Great idea OTH! Actually when it all started in the 1980's it was made up primarily of pre-unit bikes wasn't it? Think you rode an Enfield Works Rep (same age as yourself?) back then didn't ya? Big John
January 21, 200818 yr Author Interesting topic, but can somebody explain what "pre-unit" means to this clueless muppet?
January 21, 200818 yr One unrelated thing, well unrelated to Mikes collumn but related to BJ post is why are there so many awards in so many strange caegories? Well best trade supported rider? Best foreign rider ? Best Scotsman ? err why? and why group all bikes together? Perhaps thats why so many cubs applied? Probably a historical reason but i dont remember many Nationals having a Best English rider or Best foreign rider. What is foreign anyway?Not meant as a criticism because i know the Scottish is a one off so perhap thats the answer? Keep it as a one off with it's own customs and traditions however they arrived at them they seem to work i suppose? Simple answer to your question OTF, just take a look at the "Awards List" from any Scottish Six Days Trial programme pre 1965. Remember the Pre-65 Scottish Trial is run by the Edinburgh & District Motor Club Ltd and it was to mirror the awards of the SSDT of yesteryear! Oh by the way the Best Overseas Rider award just so happens to be paid for annually by.....me! Big John
January 21, 200818 yr Interesting topic, but can somebody explain what "pre-unit" means to this clueless muppet? Yip, "unit" is unit construction where the motor and gearbox is within one unitary casing. "Pre-unit" is where the motor and gearbox are two separate casings, usually an older design sometimes bolted together. Big John. I was going to post a photo but for some reasons you can't do it on this thread!
January 21, 200818 yr one change only required - change the '65' to 'unit' the pre unit scottish two day trial I would wager that half of the regular cub/b40/bantam/sprite riders have a matchless or Ariel or Enfield or Triumph twin stashed away at the back of the garage - this would bring them all out, the sections could be straightened out a bit and we would see some real bikes out in anger. I know you will still get the highly engineered bikes but at least they will make a good noise and look great. OK nit picking slightly here but the Sprite rider and all Villiers engined bikes are pre unit are they not? as is seperate engine and gearbox bolted together?
January 21, 200818 yr In reply to Stu's post, in 1964 I was 17 years old. Briefly, I first went to trials with my dad from the age of about 11 or 12, events that were held in the South Midland, Southern and South eastern Centres. We went to watch, and as I became older, dad and I observed at quite a few events, but principally those organised by the Wycombe and Farmham Royal clubs. I first rode in a trial in December 1963 on a Tiger Cub and have been riding non-stop ever since. The longest spell out of the saddle was the 2001 foot and mouth epidemic when I didn't ride for 19 weeks, which is the longest spell of inactivity ever. To save counting on your fingers, I'm 61 years old, a week ago actually, and have ridden trials, sidecar trials, enduros, one scramble and one tarmac hill climb. I've been British Enduro Champion three times, once the clubman overall (1985) and twice the Over 40 champ. I twice finished third overall in the British Sidecar Trials Championship - not bragging (nothing much to brag about) but obviously somebody wanted to know!
January 21, 200818 yr Well that tells us a lot about what you know about pre65 bike then........................
January 21, 200818 yr Well that tells us a lot about what you know about pre65 bike then........................ He's answered your question about what he was doing in 1964 which doesn't seem to have calmed you down so did you enter and not get a ride? Are you peeved that he's riding a borrowed bike or that he doesn't ride Pre-65 all year round or that you think he's been granted a favour or all 3?
January 21, 200818 yr As for the Twinshock posts. I think the "horse" has already bolted and dissapeared way way over the hill. I regularly see disc braked twinshocks fitted with engines from a totally different period with modified chassis and shock positions T45 frames etc. It's already happened. Never mind the converted monos.Just take a look at the Spanish series. They have managed to sort out a set of rules and regs that seem to work very very well. At least for twinshocks anyway. Eh Mr Greeves Its probably just people trying to make there twinshock just a bit more competative against modern bikes, dont normal twinshock trials specify drum brakes only? But then again someone will probably work out a way of fitting a small disc and caliper inside a drum so it looks normal from the outside.
January 21, 200818 yr Hello Kinnel, To reply to your post.....................did'nt enter, had the good fortune to ride 3 times this fantastic trial...........last time in conditions the worst known in the history of the trial, rode round with a friend on a 300 kilo rigid 350 Terot (french bike from about 1937) as for my part I rode my 1952 Guillier fitted with a 1958 8e 197cc engine...........ok .......ok I own up................ it was fitted with Ducati 2 stroke clutch..........
January 21, 200818 yr rappers hope you can get your head round woodys post, i think it sums up pretty well how most of us feel on this emotive issue , maybe you could take it up with the organisers and do another post with there replys in the not to distant future, or would you rather catch the plague!
January 21, 200818 yr rappers hope you can get your head round woodys post, i think it sums up pretty well how most of us feel on this emotive issue , maybe you could take it up with the organisers and do another post with there replys in the not to distant future, or would you rather catch the plague! Paioli, I respect what Woody is saying in his post which in short revolves around the vast amount of hard cash that riders are spending on their so called Pre-65 bikes. However... You will not see a single post on this subject or any other surrounding the Pre-65 Scottish here or on any other website from the organisers...fact! They simply don't do it. Actually now I think about it, I would guess that the bulk of the committee do not even browse this website! So, you are going to be disappointed I'm afraid. Besides Rappers is probably not going to waste time taking such matters up with them in any case. Simply put, over 300 folk made an application to ride in a trial with 180 spaces, they all downloaded or asked for regulations and entry forms, they all read the requirements of that particular event and still went ahead and entered. Riders have a choice, if they don't like it, they don't enter! I see no-one except Overthehill has accepted my challenge to come up with a set of regulations as per my previous post yet! Big John
January 22, 200818 yr whats the matter big john, you answering for rappers now, i thought this thred was to try and help rappers understand why people have issues with this events rules ! he did ask the question ! rather catch the plague at the end kinda gave it away don't you think ! don't need you to tell me something i already know , IT WAS SAID TONGUE IN CHEEK ! and as for your challange,give the 120 unlucky riders a ride next year ! then every one gets a ride, every couple of years! then give marks at the start for non standard parts ,top bloke starting on +40 marks,might encourage him to ride a more standard bike next year ,only if he wants to win that is !
