scorpa3 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Well put again Woody, speaking as a classic trials 'outsider' your view point makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 woody , how many times do we go down this dead end alley , based on two of your well Thought out post's , surly a letter posted direct to the organisers might seem to be the next step of which I would gladly co sign with yourself and whoever else that might like to register a interest , and I do mean my real name ! and correct me if I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Think you missed the point, starting two a minute at different locations allows more riders to complete the course in less time than it would starting them all at section one, how long does it take the first rider to get to section 16 on a 25 mile course, that is about the time you increase the rider/ minute by and still get done in the alloted time.Next year you will have the same argument, because folk are not looking at solutions to the real problem, first define the problem, the sour grapes about bikes is coming about because people are getting the entries returned. Why you ride the old boat anchors I'll never know, mebe it just gives old codgers summat to moan about. The entry is already a split start with 180 starters, two riders off each minute, odd and even numbers going in different directions. Very little queueing and still takes all day to get the last riders back. Most of these bikes only do 25mph max on the road remember. No chance to accomodate more riders even if they could by law. The arguments about who gets in and who doesn't are no different to the SSDT, Manx, Lakes, Reeth etc. Fact is there will always be a number of riders names pencilled in for any event. It's the way of the world. Interestingly, John Maxfield who rides a modernised cub and who always places well in the top pre65 events isn't in so that's one 'name' that is missing. No idea why though, maybe never entered. The main problem stems from the eligibility criteria and whether having something deemed illegal on your bike one year will prevent you from getting an entry in the future. Marks can be added to a rider's score if a component is deemed not to comply. But this never happens to the front runners who have the seriously modified kit. That is what people feel is unfair, all people want is a set of rules or guidelines that are firstly understandable and secondly, fairly and consistently administered and that they are applied to everyone. It's not moaning for moaning's sake, it's genuine grievance at an unlevel playing field that benefits money and engineering skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 woody , how many times do we go down this dead end alley , based on two of your well Thought out post's , surly a letter posted direct to the organisers might seem to be the next step of which I would gladly co sign with yourself and whoever else that might like to register a interest , and I do mean my real name ! and correct me if I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I saw overthehill's post on legality, and didn't know that they already split the start. I shouldn't of posted in what I don't know about, I'll stick to modern bikes, pre 65 looks too complicated for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 woody I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I wonder what the eligibility criteria for those two classes was.... HAVE FUN ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 You may be surprised but road based trials are limited to 180 competitors by 'The motor vehicles (competitions & trials) (Scotland) regulations 1976 yaaaaawn..............Yes there is legislation telling us how to run our events they also state that the maximum number of riders dispatched can be 2 a minute so their hands are tied thankfully the same regulations gives particular exemption to the SSDT ...yes the SSDT is written into UK law !!! Legal lesson over ........................................................ what about making it a pre'60 trial? that legislation (at least in england and wales) was up for review a few years ago (see this google search ). IIRC part of it was to update some stuff (eg ACU to ACU ltd, RAC to MSA), so it could have been asked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) Looks like its over for another year! Big John Edited January 24, 2008 by Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hi Guy's Brilliant thread. Just cost me an hours work and fifty pound to read the lot, but as been well worth it. Making it brief, One, what happens to the 300 bikes for the rest of the year. And two , why are there not more two day Pre 65 trials in the rest of the country, We know there is another in Scotland, but why not in the Cotswold's or Yorkshire would we have the same intrest? Regards Charlie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiley Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well said Charlie where are all of these riders and bikes all year round i put on between 8 and 10 trials a year in the oxford area and don't see that many bangers , The strangers that get in scotland every year that is ,Obviously a great deal are known to me and fair play to them but at the end of the day it's not the people who put a lot back into our sport that get a ride is it, Neither is it the the rider who puts in 40 meetings plus a year , perhaps the committe should buy a TMX NEWS and make a data base from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hi Guy'sBrilliant thread. Just cost me an hours work and fifty pound to read the lot, but as been well worth it. Making it brief, One, what happens to the 300 bikes for the rest of the year. And two , why are there not more two day Pre 65 trials in the rest of the country, We know there is another in Scotland, but why not in the Cotswold's or Yorkshire would we have the same intrest? Regards Charlie. RMC have run a 2 Day pre 65 trial, end of May / beginning of June for quite a long time. http://richmondmotorclub.com/cms/showartic...p?articleID=165 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 The arguments about who gets in and who doesn't are no different to the SSDT, Manx, Lakes, Reeth etc. Fact is there will always be a number of riders names pencilled in for any event. It's the way of the world. I take exception to that, RMC have operated a first past the post policy as long as I've know. For our 3 Day the only people who get rides are the workers & they are expected to open the course, clear up the course & collect observer books whilst they compete. I know that 3 days of that tends to take the edge off your performance & interest taken in the social side of the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) I take exception to that, RMC have operated a first past the post policy as long as I've know. For our 3 Day the only people who get rides are the workers & they are expected to open the course, clear up the course & collect observer books whilst they compete. I know that 3 days of that tends to take the edge off your performance & interest taken in the social side of the event. OK, apologies for including Reeth, I'd assumed that longstanding riders of the event would get an entry purely for that reason, nothing sinister, just recognition of their regular support over the years if you like, which to be honest I can't see a problem with - didn't mean there was any fixing of ballots etc. in that comment ok, I'll finish the post now my PC has finished posting unfinished messages and rebooting itself all on its own.... All I meant was that there can be a number of places allocated to certain people in any event, whatever the reason - club members, officials, aces, characters and whatever else. One of the problems with written opinions in forums as to being spoken in discussion - easy for things to be unclear and mis-interptreted Edited January 25, 2008 by Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 ... it must look period but can have modern performance. Except that no James/Cub/Ariel looks anything like a 60s version but we'll let that go.This I think is a fine and workable solution but the problem is that this favours the people with money and/or engineering skills. Not fair. Why does it matter if its fair or not? In all types of competition people produce technical advantages in one form of another. If you had everyone riding a duplicate machine you would still get a winner! So my question is, where does skill come into all of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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