Hello all,

I have a 2007 4RT that is a little finicky when it comes to starting, it quite often needs a "reset" by holding the throttle wide open and a slow kick.

What this reset does, exactly, I have no idea, but if I do it, the bike is guaranteed to start up on the next kick.

I end up having to do the following at least every second time I start the bike:

-kick

-swear

-kick again

-sigh

-hold WOT and kick slowly

-kick and try to catch up on the loop trail and eat everyones dust

It makes no difference if I stop the bike with the kill button, or if I stall it at part throttle or at idle. Idle is set high, play in the throttle.

In the course of an event, then, this probably means 10 sections x 3 loops x 2 starts per section x 4 kicks to start = 240 kicks. No wonder my leg is tired!

The most annoying thing is it's a software issue, I'm sure. It starts first kick every time after a reset. Is there some other issue perhaps?

Thanks and best regards.

Make sure the rpm at idle is at least 1850 plus, give your air filter a really good clean and dont oil it or if you really want to only put a tiny bit on. Another poor start problem is caused by no slack in the throttle, make sure you have a couple of mm play before the throttle engages.

Edited May 28, 200917 yr by The Addict

give your air filter a really good clean and dont oil it

Sorry but I think not oiling an air filter is rubbish.

Idle must be set at 1800 + RPM. Use an electronic tachometer.

If that fails then, try kicking it with the throttle just a wee bit open.

Edited May 28, 200917 yr by for artie

Perce, I use a little amount of oil on mine but change it every ride,no signs of dust in the box so not much getting through, the 4rt doesnt like an oiled filter like a 2 stroke can manage messes with the mixture. I know a bloke who hasnt oiled his for 3 years odd and no probs

The weight of a properly oiled air filter is 35grams as per J Granell head mechanic Montesa/HRC TT

The weight of a properly oiled air filter is 35grams as per J Granell head mechanic Montesa/HRC TT

Hi Martin!, do you have any advice on the hard starting issue? You're the refect guy to help....

have had this a bit with water ingress, have you pressure washed it?

Earths?

Does it start first kick when cold?

have had this a bit with water ingress, have you pressure washed it?

Earths?

Does it start first kick when cold?

Hi Nigel,

Yes, I do pressure wash it regularly, but take care to avoid any direct spray on the wiring harness and ecu/injection unit. It did also do it the first time out this spring when I know for sure it was clean and dry. It's done it since I got the bike a little less than a year ago. It's been annoying me ever since but I finally decided to do something about it.

I doubt that it is an earth problem, I've double checked that. If it was it would likely be hard starting all the time but it starts like a champ once I "reset" it.

Same goes for cold starting. Reset it and it starts first kick.

As for idle speed, it is set quite high, higher, in fact, than 3 other 4RT's in my group last weekend. All 3 started fine.

Are there any settings in the programmable ECU's that I could play with? I thought maybe a programmable unit would help.

See if bike starts better with a quick flick of the throttle and then a press on the kill button. (no slow kick)

If it need the slow kick all the time sounds like the the system is loosing its stored electrical energy which it needs to fire up the injection system.

give sandifords a ring...

it sounds like the air/fuel ratio is slightly off. everytime you kick with the throttle open you bring clean air into the engine

if you have a PTB try lowering the ignition on 0% TH and 1000rpm-1800rpm to -3 degrees. This has work very well for me.

adjusting the fuel is harder, you have to look at the plug to see the results of your changes.

Just remember that the curves and the 3d view give a more accurate description of how the map will work.

See if bike starts better with a quick flick of the throttle and then a press on the kill button. (no slow kick)

If it need the slow kick all the time sounds like the the system is loosing its stored electrical energy which it needs to fire up the injection system.

There seems to be some misunderstanding on reseting the system. Does anyone have a definitive answer on this. Unless the bike is running there is no way that the ECU would be reading the TPS or would "see" the kill switch.... although I will try it tomorrow.

There is no stored energy in the electrical system. This is a common misconception. Even though there is a fairly large capacitor in the system, it's used to smooth the pulses from the rectified and regulated voltage, not actually store any energy.

It doesn't take that much power to squirt a bit of fuel, and light a spark...... it's how much fuel, and when that spark occurs that are the only two variables.

Ludde:

I don't have a PTB, but I guess maybe it's time to get one..... even if it's just for the starting issue. The idea of the engine getting "cleaned out" makes way more sense than it actually being a reset of some sort. I'm thinking there really is no such thing!!!!

So, a slow kick that doesn't fire up the fuel pump or open the injector, with the throttle open, cleans out the the cylinder, then voila a fresh charge and away she goes.

This is also brilliant because it goes a long way to explaining why a high idle helps. It's the less rich idle mixture that results that helps.

Now that I think of it the whole oiled/dirty air filter would have effect too.

A least it's starting to make sense!

Thanks!! I guess there's my excuse for the PTB.....

give sandifords a ring...

he is in the states I think, I would take all the electrical sockets apart blow dry contact cleaner and check earths again. Shouldn't need reset first kick thats for sure.

Wheres munch when you need him?

Edited May 30, 200917 yr by Nigel Dabster

having bought my 4rt from Sandifords the trick of snapping the throttle and kill button to help if bike does not start straight away and if no joy then a subsequent slow kick was what I was told by them. Finds it works for me whatever the theory. (capacitor info also from Sandifords as was the info of a too low tick over not being enough to keep electrical system fully charged)

I was also told by a spectator in SSDT 2008 that too low a tick over can have an adverse effect on top end lubrication????.