In the same way that passenger aircraft technology seems to have gone backwards with the scrapping of Concorde has trials done the same with the 4 strokes? Not lighter, no new technology although possibly easier to ride? Was the GG Pro the last big step forward? - Lighter and with a revolutionary gearbox, yet pretty much the same price as it's predecessor.

Passenger planes are no faster than 30 years ago when Concorde was introduced. Just bigger and smoother.

Whaddaya think chaps?

Advances in plane technology are down to economics. Theres no point in vastly increasing the technological complexity in a plane when the knock on effect will be higher fares and a possible risk to business.

Competition machine development has always followed an elevation/plateau pattern. Steps forward come along every couple of years and then levels off as the new developments are refined and optimised. The development from old twinshock drum braked iron engined british clunkers to the New 4rt did not come about in a continual evolution. We had the two stroke revolution, then the monoshock revolution, then the move to disk brakes, then liquid cooling / alloy frames / mass centralisation etc.

Theres still plenty of room for imrovement. I see the main changes being the materials used in chassis components and the increased use of engine management electronics to allow a change in engine characteristis with the switch of a computer chip.......

Sort of not whats your line in this section but what sim card are you slotting in type of thing?

....just to clarify, the sim card is linked to a GPS Sat Nav system pin pointing a line through a section.

i've ever never bought or sold a car based on electronic advancements - its What Does It Go Like, the punter is interesting in.

Not at all spud. what I meant was a sim card type thing you could slot in to adjust the engine performance, section by section.

Actually I like the idea of linking to Sat Nav, might mean we might never miss a set of cards in a section again

no new technology

Was the GG Pro the last big step forward?

What do you call the 4RT super cool f1type piston and the fuel injection with no battery? I think that's a first for a production motorcycle.

The Pro is lighter but that is about its only tech advantage. Heck some of them don't even start!

What do you call the 4RT super cool f1type piston and the fuel injection with no battery? I think that's a first for a production motorcycle.

It should be noted that not everyone here is unbiased.

Some people are very anti any other brand than Montesa and bleed red and white.

So the fact that the mains is lubricated as it is the clutch is different to everything else and its size and weight is significantly smaller is not a leap forward?

Try to be objective.

The Sherco 320 4t especially and montesa 4rt to a lesser extent are very similar (excluding the top end of the motors) to the 04 designs.

Im neutral on this, I do think we have gone backwards, but now we can only move forwards?

Using Montesa specifically with the huge Honda company, they will move forward, its very unlikely that they can produce a new bike and not develop it further.

The GasGas range from years ago is good to look at, producing the bigger, wider, heavier bikes in early 1990's, and then by 2000 it was completely the opposite and to this year was STILL being developed.

The 4strokes will give the manufactures a fresh start, with the past knowledge and experience from the 2Stokes, they'll would have learnt things about bikes,engines and rider.

Now they must put all that into a new bike, the 4 strokes.

Look at the Montesa, Gas Gas, Beta...ANY bike how it is now, and add 5 years on, and then see how much it will develop then. Yes, we have gone back in time, but this will give the manufactures something new to look at and make a bit of a challenge. It will be interesting to see which company comes up top and how much they develop these next few years.

What if Honda had really pushed the 2 stroke? Also Nigel is right - apart from the engine, the Mont and especially the Sherco are much the same as before.

Fudamentally the bikes today are the same as the Beta Zero of the early nineties. They have certainly evolved a lot since then, BUT had alloy perimeter frame, disc brakes, watercooling, monoshock etc. I would guess that the Zero engine weighed less than the new 4s and certainly had smaller dimensions.

I remember riding a mono Yam for the first time when they were new and compared to my Cota 348 or a current 340 Bulto it felt massively different. Does the new Mont feel that different to the 315? - not according to Sunt.

Where is the next big step coming from?

mmm same as the 315 , not exactly true in my opinion

but is it being similar bad? 1and 2 in the world championship for what

the knockers would call a DATED bike

the pro was a big step right ? so have we seen a change in the results of the riders riding one? probably the biggest selling bike so does it dominate at all levels?

in my opinion you have to be able to find grip with a pro its not so forgiving so is that advance better for the average jo?

People seem willing to slag bikes off at any given opportunity.

95% of the worlds trials riders (not wtc contenders) wouldn't benefit from either a fourstroke or a two stroke bike. neither will it make a significant difference to a riders ability upon the make of bike they ride.

What is important and i'll say it over and over again, is hours on any bike and advice from riders who know what they are talking about, not fathers who can't ride or people with limited experience.

I'm not saying i know the ins and outs of everything, relating to trials bikes at all. but there is only so much you can learn on a trials bike over a specific amount of given time.

The most important elements of trials are to ride a bike you, the rider feel comfortable on the most, and FUN.

Boyd - well put.

I ride a 200 Sherco for several reasons.

1. It is MORE than enough for my limited abilities.

2. I have a local dealer who has always looked after me.

and most importantly

3. It is fun to ride, pure and simple.

Munch I think you point is very relevant and I guess my whole thinking on this post is along the lines of the fact that there is no doubt that the technology is there to make a much more powerful engine, but as Boyd says not many people could ride it.

That's the beaty of trials - a HUGE amount of the result is down to the rider NOT the machine.

Thank you dabber, if everyone was as honest as you, they would probably be better riders,

As a rider (what ever standard) You always remember the times when a big handful of rip snorting power has just got you over the crest of a rock, but you never look back at the sections you have cleaned with ease, or wonder just why your rear wheel spun out, just near the crest of a giant hill climb.

This is why trials is a thinking mans game, it took me years for the penny to drop, and only yesterday i learnt soemthing new while trying a Sunts 4rt in my trainers.

If only people would think about what they require out of a bike before they buy the bike, they would probably enjoy the sport much more. and have more fun.